Depleting value of HDB flats

The minister has announced that the current rules will be changed to allow CPF to be used to purchase the older HDB flats.

This will help in some way to remove the sharp decline in value when the HDB flat reach 40 years. I made this suggestion a few months ago. I am glad that this change is being made.

However, it will not address the concern that the buyers are paying a high price for the HDB flat and the flat will have zero value at the end of the 99 year lease. The large sum paid towards the flat will be totally depleted.

Is it fair to the owners who paid a large sum to buy the HDB flats? No, it is not.

Some people will say that the owner would have passed away and should not be concerned over this matter.

But what about the person who bought the resale flat at a high price? The subsequent owner will live to see the value of the HDB flat disappear totally into thin air, after paying a high price for the resale flat.

What can the govt do to reduce this loss? Is there any way to allow the HDB flats to preserve some value at the end of the 99 year lease?

Here are some actions that the govt can take:

a) The govt can allow the lease to be extended by 5 years at a small premium. This is possible if the flat is still in good condition.

b) The govt can allow the existing owner to rent the HDB flat at a modest rental.

If these options are in place, the value of the HDB flat will not become zero. It will still retain some value.

The govt should take this decision to ensure that the large sums paid by the HDB owners do not totally disappear.

 

Tan Kin Lian

 

 

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39 Responses to “Depleting value of HDB flats”

  • honest and dishonest:

    when a government is dishonest, there is no point talking with it. just VTO and let New Government take over and indict the thieves at the same time.

    which thief ever admits thefts? NONE unless already facing maker like pap departed evil lky. so no point talking with existing clown pap thieves. just VTO and let New Government do the necessary.

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  • NotMyProblem:

    The main concern is not depleting value of flats, the problem is the flats are just too expensive.

    99 years lease means 99 years lease, why PAP has to lie about the value would keep increasing, and all the bullshit on asset enhancement and not allow value to depreciate. Now PAP come up with a 20 years bullshit on HIP2 and VERS.

    So the problem was on the cost of flats is just too expensive. Money taken from the CPF meant for retirement.

    Just reduce the cost of HDB flat and increase the interest on CPF.

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  • WakeupSG:

    It is pointless in tweaking HDB rules & all the interim temporary measures like relaxing use of CPF to pay old HDB flats etc which will end up zero at the end of 99 year lease!

    We HDB flat buyers are shortchanged! How can a block of flat sitting on a piece of land unless it is not built on land site, be zero valued when the lease expires! If the land cost where the block of flat is built on is not zero, then we should be fairly compensated when the flat lease expires!

    What do you think?

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  • Python 5:

    To massively amend the prices of flats drastically (sold or unsold, new or old) is going to hit either owners or would be buyers very very adversely and significantly.

    Option A
    you reduce the prices of flats to pre-70s prices??

    4rm at 40k. 5rm at 50k.
    everyone will fly in at the speed of light to buy.
    then what about those who already bought and paid at 400 or 500k???

    Option B
    If you keep the prices as they are right now, 4rm at 400k, 5rm at 500k.
    which would-be buyer can afford at these prices without a 30year loan and completely depleting their CPF??

    you cannot have both. you can only pick Option A or B. and either option is going to burn owners or would-be buyers very very severely. Severely to complete insanity and bankruptcy.

    I’d say,the whole HDB prices has been completely fkkked and allow to fester and now gradually decompose to this irreversible stage.

    this stage where you HAVE TO CHOOSE option A or B.

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  • Python 5:

    so are we expecting a new flat to cost 400-500-600k?

    and a 30year old flat to cost 500-600k?
    and a 60year old flat to cost 1 to 1.2mil??
    and a 90year old flat to cost 1.5 to 1.8mil??
    and a 99year old flat to cost 2mil??

    so HDB is going to compensate you 2mil when your flat hits 99year old and you return the flat to HDB?

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  • Python 5:

    all these fkking HDB flats are massed produced pigeon holes.
    like mass produce consumer goods on a production line.

    there is no antique value attached to it like a vintage Ferrari or Ming vase.

    so ppl expect their HDB flats to appreciate as it ages more and more and hope to cash out a huge amount by selling it to the next sucker or HDB??

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  • no more PAP is best:

    nothing seems to go right in our country anymore.
    this country is in a huge mess.
    even our neighbour is annoyed !

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  • LIONS:

    In $HORT the HOUSING DEVELOPment Board has been turned into A HOUSING DESTRUCTion Board?

    Lee Ah Long is i deed One Ah Gong Kia.

    Grin,grin,grin and more $illy grin.
    * i am so so so THICK-$kinned*?

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  • NotMyProblem:

    no more PAP is best:
    nothing seems to go right in our country anymore.
    this country is in a huge mess.
    even our neighbour is annoyed !

    This started when PAP started to be greedy. To cover its greed, it has to lie and one lie led to bigger lie.

    When lie cannot cover it, it change the law to legalise it. They even change the constitution so make it legal for their greed. PAP even selected an Indian to be a Malay President to assist in covering up the big mess created by their greed.

    The mess is so huge that nothing could possibly cover it up. Now only up to the people to clean up the mess by voting out the PAP.

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  • Perspective:

    The proposal does not really solve the depleting value of HDB flats for existing lessees. They will still see all their life’s work and savings evaporate over the years of their HDB lease. Buyers will not buy a 40-year old HDB flat when they know its value will drop even more drastically towards the end. They will be buying into uncertainty. The “small” premium could turn out to be as much as your COE (just that this time it will be called the “Certificate of Extension). It’s like a feudalistic system where peasants have to pay their dues to keep their roof and to farm the land. For the peasants, this means their life’s savings in CPF will be further depleted. It’a double jeopardy! It may just be better to rent until they can afford a new flat or private property. Why not make all HDB flats freehold since “owners” have been paying property taxes on them? Will a newly elected govt make this happen? If the Opposition can promise this, they will surely win the coming election. This would be a big leap forward towards progress and equality. Why should any political party make itself “landlord” over the people when citizens labor to pay for their flats? Majulah Singapura!

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  • oxygen:

    @ WakeupSG

    AH SENGS PAID FOR THE LAND, so it does not and cannot be owned by the AH KONGS and Ah Sengs reduced to tenants on the land.

    So either Ah Kong pays back the land costs to Ah Seng now or pay him/her the valuation of the land value at expiry.

    blockquote cite=”comment-1847153″>

    WakeupSG: We HDB flat buyers are shortchanged! How can a block of flat sitting on a piece of land unless it is not built on land site, be zero valued when the lease expires! If the land cost where the block of flat is built on is not zero, then we should be fairly compensated when the flat lease expires!

    What do you think?

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  • why am i born as a singaporean:

    i give up been a singaporean hopeless migrate is better they don’t want change i lose hope i hate being a singaporean its sucks to be one at least overseas people still treat u as a human here you are just a working slave hard to get a house,car,wife and in rat race u forever never see your future pls change singapore if not have to leave jobless is forever happening here wont change until the govt topple !!

    until is going right since the 1965 after the old fart took place

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  • opposition dude:

    Mr Tan, extending the lease by a mere 5 years won’t help one. If the flat is already depreciating at 40 what are 5 more years going to do? A 104 year lease isn’t much difference from a 99 year one you know.

    PAP has wayang’ed again as usual. Just like the Little India riots where alcohol was singled out as the main culprit now it’s the lower CPF amounts one can use for an older flat ha ha ha.

    The main issue of the 99 year lease isn’t tackled, just yet another wayang culprit found.

    Look at it this way, even if you could use more of your CPF to purchase an older flat would you do it? Of course not since the lease would get shorter after you have lived in it for 5 years and more. You really think VERS is going to boost the flat’s value by 30% or more ah?

    Wake up goondus, the FACT remains that older flats’ values are falling and it’s NOT because of using CPF money to buy them, it’s that people woke the F up and came to the realisation that if they bought these old flats they will have very big problems selling them off when they get even older!

    This is why the pool of buyers shrunk so dramatically leading to an lold 3 room Toa Payoh flat being sold for under 300k today!

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  • Perspective:

    @ opposition dude:
    March 10, 2019 at 1:30 am

    TKL’s proposal will further entrenched the larger society in this feudalistic model. Having to extend your COE after 10 years already add to the financial burden. Now you have to add another COE on your newly purchased old flat every 5 years! Forever poor and slaves to the landlord!

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  • LIONS:

    AMEND THE LEASE additional 30/40 years more.
    This will mean it can at least allow for accomodating 3 to 4 generations before returning to State.

    WHY SHUD GOVT KEEP ROBBING THE PEOPLE?
    PS: WHY ONLY AH SENG GOT ACQUIRED?

    LEASE EXTENSIONS ONLY FOR SGS-OWMED HDB.
    CITIZENS MUST HAVE MORE STATE BENEFITS ,ya?

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  • Regime Change Only Way:

    The new government should setup a commission of inquiry on HDB. The dafts need to get the truth of what is meant by HDB asset enhancement that the previous PAP government promised. Was it a lie or was there a real strategy? How was that changed and how was it broken?
    Marboro and Woody are still kicking, their revelations will be useful for new government. Where have the amassed wealth of selling HDB gone to? This is likely tied to the strategy of our reserves. New government will get to assess the magnitude and extend of the problem.
    SDP had proposed a workable solution. Changing to freehold will address the housing needs and restore value. Automatically extending long lease is another feasible way. The only way to continue the sustainability is to restore the confidence that HDB is still a store of wealth for retirement and passing down.
    HDB has been footing the maintenance bills of their homes, covertingbit to freehold is just like mimicking the housing market of many advanced nations. The only way is to cut the greed from government that it has to profit from HDB. The land has value, the current greedy PAP government intended to take back the HDB at zero outlay and then resell the land at filthy profit again. This is the mental blocked for PAP as they are at a loss of coming up with other strategy other than to obtained money easily at the expense of housing needs of citizens.

    Many countries already moved away of using increased population as a way of growth, maintaining balance and quality of living sustainability is becoming more important. Having a local skilled workforce and industry that scaled with skill and moving in tandem with innovation cycle is what is needed. Our industry cannot be allowed to compete only on price and cheap input. The highly educated workforce with high PISA scores is already a step in right direction. Why couldn’t the PAP government leverage on this? One simple answer is that they do not know how to. Our best has been put though the wrong path in army, subsequently put into high places in government, then trying to play catch-up in experience from on the job training. This is a sure failure once our pioneering leaders and administrators retired from office, leaving gaps in experience for real world governance and competition. It is no surprise or coincidence that the constant failures have now surfaced. Instead of reaching out to criticisms to harvest ideas, the obscene pay created a barrier to such approach, as it Questioned the core of PAP’s justification of deserving high pay because of their infallibility. So everything has been stacked against PAP governing ethos to push them to do the wrong things, dragging down the nation with them.

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  • No Dafts or Dogs Allowed:

    Go look at those 40 years flat now. The structures & fixtures already dilapidated, rusty and crumbling/peeling apart. Who still dare to stay beyond 99 years? TKL don’t know what he’s talking about.

    Perspective:
    @ opposition dude:
    March 10, 2019 at 1:30 am

    TKL’s proposal will further entrenched the larger society in this feudalistic model. Having to extend your COE after 10 years already add to the financial burden. Now you have to add another COE on your newly purchased old flat every 5 years! Forever poor and slaves to the landlord!

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  • Python 5:

    this move is to placate the slow build up of anger from their older ppl vote base. they fear of losing their votes from the older generation. older generation now seeing their 30/40 year old flat’s value depleting and CPF withheld.

    how can you get old ppl to vote for you, when their CPF is being withheld and flat value depleting drastically?

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  • Sue, Sue, Sue:

    Sue all those politicians, current and past, who promise us that the value of HDB can only go up. They stated this for many years.

    Their words are all recorded in the newspapers and in Parliament records.

    These politicians are supposed to be very honest, people of super high integrity, and who can plan 100 years into the future.

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  • MarBowling:

    Like the Chinese Mounting a Tiger(Greed$$$$$ for the FamiLEE and Gang by $ucking money and blood$ from the dwellers of so-called “affordable” HDB flats through the various of scheme.of things by the 3 PeeMs, Lee Kayu, Woody and Mai Hum) is easy as ABC! Period. To DISMOUNT is Hell Lot of Difficult! So far, all those means and ways to dismount is just kicking the fiacking Can down the LOONG Road.

    Tan KL sounds like a PAPIGS’ mole. WE shouldn’t be “Teaching them how to SOLVE and RESOLVE their self-made massive problem” which by LOGIC should be SOLVED and RESOLVED by Mai Hum and his bunch of World Class Ob$cene $millions’$alary Minister$, If all of us DO what is suggested by Tan KL, Mai Hum and Gang can THEN continue to shake legs and TCSS all day/night LOONG knowing there are always SUCKERS and DAFTS willing to CLEAR and CLEAN up the SMELLY SHITS for them! Now it’s is PAY BACK Time for those MF JLB PAPigs! Let them doing the Cracking and CRASHING of HEADS! What do you think?

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  • The big mistake:

    Anything with a limited life is a depreciating asset. It is not a store of value. This applies to HDB flat. CPF is retirement money. It should only be invested in (real) appreciating asset.

    HDB price went due to an unsustainable property bubble. Price went up over 30x over the last 5 decades while real wages only went up 6x.

    Singaporeans should ask themselves why was there a restriction on the use of CPF on flats over 30 years old. The reason is that it is basically a depreciating asset. HIP 1, HIP 2 will only temporarily increase the value of the value just like repainting an old car. At the end of the lease, it is still worth ZERO.

    BILLIONS of retirement money was put in a basically depreciating and over-valued HDB flat. Now there is a plan to allow more use of CPF funds for older flats putting more retirement money in flats. A new set of buyers will be using their CFP money “take out” those who have their CPF money tied up in old flats. Who will take them out? Doesn’t this look like a Ponzi scheme?

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  • James Lee:

    Notwithstanding all those valuable deliberations,the least those in the corridor of power in present and future government can do to honor the contributions made by the earlier PG and MG is by implementing without conditions, the following:

    1)Provide without conditions, free hospitalization and health care to the cohort of PG and MG ;by so doing,the S$30,000 to S$40,000 sitting their Medisave Accounts can be withdrawn to meet the high cost of living in Singapore they all call “HOME”

    2)Waive all fees and charges payable for their Singapore Passport .

    3) Help boost their standard of living, by unconditionally giving each of them a monthly cash payment of S$400/= for the ensuing 15 to 20 years of their remaining life span.

    Please do the needful before it’s too late!!!

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  • SingaporeAhSeng:

    Better to renew the lease for another 99 years. This is what is practical in UK and Malaysia.
    In this way, it can take care of our citizens generations.
    It can also preserve the value of the flats.
    This is what the URA and HDB and SLA can do for our citizens.

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  • RDB:

    @honest and dishonest: March 9, 2019 at 6:50 pm (Quote)

    You said:
    “when a government is dishonest, there is no point talking with it. just VTO and let New Government take over and indict the thieves at the same time.”
    ======

    Are you not truly half asleep! Why not?
    With some 70% voting for the peeing and pooing party, how do you achieve that har??? You have brainless aims right or not.

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  • I'm Halimah also jiak liao bee:

    Since all HDB flats are “leased”, not sold, why is it land price is factored into the sale price ???
    Why you 70$ daft still so stupid believing you are “buying” your flat when you are actually leasing it from the PAP.
    You have to go after that WOODY Goh who promised your asset enhancement, and Mabok Tan who pegged your flat to market price.

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  • Got cpf savings but locked:

    Only a election shock can force the pap to make the right changes fast.

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  • WakeupSG:

    Ah Kongs cannot have the cake & eat it!

    They tell us HDB flat buyers to return our 99 year old flats to them & give us NOTHING in return after we have paid the price of the flats inclusive of land cost tantamounts to daylight robbery!

    We cannot accept this deal! If Ah Kong’s HDB kongsi insists that we return the expired flats at ZERO value, then we should insist they pay us the land valuation to be shared by all the lessees concerned at the end of 99 year lease!

    oxygen:
    @ WakeupSG

    AH SENGS PAID FOR THE LAND, so it does not and cannot be owned by the AH KONGS and Ah Sengs reduced to tenants on the land.

    So either Ah Kong pays back the land costs to Ah Seng now or pay him/her the valuation of the land value at expiry.

    blockquote cite=”comment-1847153″>

    WakeupSG: We HDB flat buyers are shortchanged! How can a block of flat sitting on a piece of land unless it is not built on land site, be zero valued when the lease expires! If the land cost where the block of flat is built on is not zero, then we should be fairly compensated when the flat lease expires!

    What do you think?

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  • MarBowling:

    I’m Halimah also jiak liao bee:
    March 10, 2019 at 1:44 pm (Quote)
    Since all HDB flats are “leased”, not sold, why is it land price is factored into the sale price ???
    Why you 70$ daft still so stupid believing you are “buying” your flat when you are actually leasing it from the PAP.
    You have to go after that WOODY Goh who promised your asset enhancement, and Mabok Tan who pegged your flat to market price.

    Response: the MasterMind(MM)of this Arse-Enhancement Scheme of things is Finally Dead on March 2015. Going after the rest of the schemers(Woody and Marbok Tan)is like finding a needle in the Ocean! Even if you manage to locate them, Woody won’t entertain you unless you are his Brother and Marbok Tan would do likewise unless you are MarBok!

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  • Python 5:

    repainting an old car, and with HIP1/2, it is supposed to appreciate the value for a while for the owner to offload it to the next sucker to buy it and deplete his CPF.

    supposed they didn’t demolish the Dakota Crescent estate. (built in 1958). so can do some HIP on those 60 year old blocks (like repainting a 60yo car) there and then sell it for what……500k, 800k, or 1.2mil or more???

    The big mistake: The reason is that it is basically a depreciating asset. HIP 1, HIP 2 will only temporarily increase the value of the value just like repainting an old car.

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  • Python 5:

    again, the actual physical state of the building itself.

    Dakota Crescent again. have you tried going into the lifts there??
    the buttons are black with white floor numbers on them.

    40 years old flat – clementi, toa payoh, eunos.
    60 years old flat – Dakota.

    who wants to buy at 350-500k or even more??
    delusion day dreaming!!!

    and if you want to increase the 99year lease to 119 or 149 year lease….no need pay meh? free increase in lease for 20-50years??
    like that COE also can increase another 10years for free.

    No Dafts or Dogs Allowed:

    Go look at those 40 years flat now. The structures & fixtures already dilapidated, rusty and crumbling/peeling apart. Who still dare to stay beyond 99 years? TKL don’t know what he’s talking about.

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  • rukidding:

    Accept the facts that…..Lee Con You

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  • Clive Tan:

    Let’s vote in Opposition that promises to turn HDB into freehold if they can form the government. Solve the zero value at 99 years problem.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Sue Sue Sue

    ALL THE AH SENGs got SABO by AH KONGs JIALAT JIALAT especially in the 2011 GE promise of ETERNAL HEAVENLY WEALTH.

    Hougang/Aljunied Ah Sengs, in particular, were warned that vote Oppies – YOU WILL ALL REPENTS.

    HA Ha Ha. HILARIOUS.

    IT IS NOW BUY-PROPERTY-VOTE-PAPpy-Ah Kongs all repenting. Ah Lians daughters of Ah Huays are giving these morons a good moral lecture.

    HOW COMICAL OF COMEDY OF SHAKESPEAREAN PROPORTIONS.

    Sue, Sue, Sue: Sue all those politicians, current and past, who promise us that the value of HDB can only go up. They stated this for many years.

    Their words are all recorded in the newspapers and in Parliament records.

    These politicians are supposed to be very honest, people of super high integrity, and who can plan 100 years into the future.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Python 5,

    STRUCTURE CAN ONLY DECAY OVER TIME due to weathering DECOMPOSITION. So the only thing that can gain in value is the INDESTRUCTIBLE LAND paid for by AH SENGs.

    Python 5: To massively amend the prices of flats drastically (sold or unsold, new or old) is going to hit either owners or would be buyers very very adversely and significantly.

    Option A
    you reduce the prices of flats to pre-70s prices??

    4rm at 40k. 5rm at 50k.
    everyone will fly in at the speed of light to buy.
    then what about those who already bought and paid at 400 or 500k???

    Option B
    If you keep the prices as they are right now, 4rm at 400k, 5rm at 500k.
    which would-be buyer can afford at these prices without a 30year loan and completely depleting their CPF??

    you cannot have both. you can only pick Option A or B. and either option is going to burn owners or would-be buyers very very severely. Severely to complete insanity and bankruptcy.

    So my suggestion is best

    oxygen: AH SENGS PAID FOR THE LAND, so it does not and cannot be owned by the AH KONGS and Ah Sengs reduced to tenants on the land.

    So either Ah Kong pays back the land costs to Ah Seng now or pay him/her the valuation of the land value at expiry.

    4Gs, 3Gs, and their moralising Ah Lians and Ah Huays all DIAM DIAM DIAM, of course.

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  • dun go for it:

    i pity those fools who fall for this, their latest trap!
    please folks wake up. its not worth it!

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  • unpredictable butterfly effect:

    //you cannot have both. you can only pick Option A or B. and either option is going to burn owners or would-be buyers very very severely. Severely to complete insanity and bankruptcy.//

    zero sum. it is either passing the high cost (high price) to the next generation (likely to be the case as everyone is selfish and ‘comfortable with the familiar known devil, the status quo) or bite the bullet now (option A) while those buying high (many of them in the recent past) will suffer grandly and plenty of disruption.

    and it is not so simple, the primary effect is that all the stakeholders as long as they are related to real estate will get affected (from banks to construction industry) and with secondary effects that you just don’t know how it will eventually pan out (unpredictable butterfly effect).

    in short, the white monkey idiots have already laid the tough conditions which are very difficult to unravel – expect piecemeal wayang bandage to confuse / fool while buying for time while they quietly leave the scene in times to come leaving future leaders & generation to ‘lick the wound’ – e.g we can see it happening with our train problems.

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  • LIONS:

    The majority of sgs basically work till they DROP DEAD to PAY AND PAY THE PAP for Food,water n electricity,HOUSING(HDB) LEASE N MEDICAL,what else?

    The PAPie$ n their doggies are the ones that RAPE THE OTHERS???

    MORE DEBATES DO NOT HELP.
    FIRST,OPPO ALLIANCE.
    SECOND,70 PCT JUST GOT TO WAKE UP N GROW UP OR REMAIN $EXUALLY ABU$ED *KIDS*?

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  • Perspective:

    Asset Enhancement to Zero! With you, for you, fool you!

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  • Talking here is only venting a:

    Mr tan please join Mr tan Cheng bok. Get into parliament is the only thing you could do for Singapore.

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