Irresponsible to allow old people to use CPF savings to buy old flats

The liberalisation of CPF to enable elderly people to buy older flats that was recently announced in Parliament by Lawrence Wong. In my opinion, this is a most irresponsible and despicable policy. It is suicidal to say the least.

To begin with, old people do not have many more economically productive years left in them. When their CPF savings are used to buy an already old flat, they deplete their retirement funds much further to buy a depreciating asset.

With this purchase of an old and lease-decaying flat with not many years ahead, what will end up of them? They will have grossly inadequate CPF retirement funds, an old flat that they cannot monetised in the context of health problems. Then what? It is not hard to envisage the dire consequences one after another being played out.

I ask loudly if this new policy is designed to help our elderly people own flat with a peace of mind or to help HDB sell their old flats and make used of old people as suckers? I would not be surprised if plenty of our elderly people end up in desperate straits going forward.

 

Simon Lim

 

 

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38 Responses to “Irresponsible to allow old people to use CPF savings to buy old flats”

  • its a pappy trick:

    All i can say is DONT FALL FOR IT!
    Its akin to a noose around one’s neck.
    if PAP gets the majority to govern again for the next 5 years…many more will fall into desperate situations…mayb even suicide.

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  • a PG:

    If Mr L Wong continues to a Ministar for another 10 to 20 years, he would have accumulated multi-million$$$ when he retires. But for the elderly, their cpf money is depleting each passing years. The gahmen should not continue to think of new schemes to make money from the elderly. They had already spent so many years working in their lives. It is very cold-hearted to ask them to pay more when they need 3 meals a day to stay alive.

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  • Asd:

    Encourage the poor to buy then have them pay property tax ???? GDP growth ??

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  • can we report CI to police?:

    its a pappy trick:
    All i can say is DONT FALL FOR IT!
    Its akin to a noose around one’s neck.
    if PAP gets the majority to govern again for the next 5 years…many more will fall into desperate situations…mayb even suicide.

    70% sheep is a disappointment.

    UNLESS more of them fall into the trap, the same saga as GE2015 repeats.

    Since GE2015, the more idiotic policies clown pap gives to 70% sheep, the more we silently clap clap clap. Because 70% sheep S$ holding power is very low. After all median wage is below S$3,500 pm GROSS and very few at 55 can even meet minimum sum which tells the whole story of their financial state.

    After GE2015 we have told everyone we won’t lift a finger. We told them we don’t mind them not lifting a finger too. Because GE2015 has told the ultimate story. We have been badly hurt by 70% sheep. So we just wait for 70% sheep to be squeezed dry by clown pap and have our last laugh before we meet departed pap evil lky on the other side and kick his ffffing balls. and we guarantee the lying departed pap evil lky won’t be able to meet us at the cul-de-sac as he bull shitted. lky is a liar. he has no balls to meet anyone at the cul-de-sac.

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  • NotMyProblem:

    I like to ask, why the elderly need to buy flat, it doesn’t matter old or new? HDB has excessive un-sold flats, is it?

    Where are these elderly people staying now? In the parks or under bridges?

    Why the government now want to con the elderly too? If they have too much money in the CPF, I would think it is better for doing something else. Putting CPF money into HDB flat is like throwing away money!!

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  • Python 5:

    let these old ppl empty their CPFs completely to buy a depreciating asset.

    in the end, the depreciating value of the flat indirectly helps the PAP erode the old ppl’s CPF. makes it an easier job for PAP not to release the CPF since eventually there will be very little or nothing at all to release.

    anyway, a lot of these old ppl worshipped PAP/LKY/LHL like gods.
    and if these old ppl commit suicide, its good for the opposition oppo supporters like me, since there will be fewer ppl voting for PAP.

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  • Stolen Swiss Std, CPF, HDB:

    One cannot satisfactorily discuss the current failure of HDB without addressing the issue of asset enhancement.
    If PAP were to be able to deliver asset enhancement and subsequent retirement sufficiency, how can using CPF for HDB housing a bad thing?
    It is just another form of investment, which the citizen is investing rather than relying on GIC for returns.
    The issue is what happened to the profit obtained from the land value?
    Why should pAp pocket everything while HDB owners paid for the land and maintenance from the onset?
    What has changed in the policy strategy of asset enhancement?
    Only Woody and maboro can tell us.

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  • Dr. Chan:

    Using whole life savings to buy second hand car with super high mileage and 1 year left on COE.
    PAP must be really desperate to suck in all the money they can by preying on the elderly and lowly educated.

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  • Dr. Chan:

    @Stolen Swiss Std, CPF, HDB
    PAP did promise Swiss Standard. And they did deliver. However, it is the fault of the 70% who did not read the fine print – ‘for the PAP natural aristocraps only’.

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  • liars & betrayers:

    HDB shd return lessees the land cost plus all property tax paid thru the years.
    a big con job. poor peasants cheated in broad daylight…

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  • What's minister administering?:

    Are these ministers acting out of compassion for human beings and values of social responsibility with far-sighted vision?

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  • oxygen:

    @ Stolen Swiss Std, CPF, HDB:

    OF COURSE, IT IS A TERRIBLE THING OF ALLOWING CPF for HDB housing or even private property. Housing is a depreciable liability (mortgage) which has NO INHERENT ECONOMIC VALUE except of fictitious inflated bubble valuation. Upon its full settlement, the decaying structures needs refurbishing, repair, even reconstruction to retain its conditions to preserve values.

    Peasants are paying for INFLATED VALUATION – not asset assumed – which they otherwise cannot financially afford without CPF utilisation. CPF money is for retirement and peasants are “consuming” future spending resources NOW in frivolous wanton consumption beyond current income means.

    THAT IS EXACTLY WHY ASSET ENHANCEMENT SCAM DELIVERS NEITHER ASSET ENHANCEMENT NOR RETIREMENT SUFFICIENCY.

    No other country allows its citizen to use retirement money to buy/speculate in property.

    Australia dare not cut its interest rate to help the corporate sector for fear of re-igniting the crazy house bubble said to be likely the worst crash this year globally.

    https://www.scmp.com/business/article/2189470/australias-record-high-housing-prices-were-driven-low-interest-rates

    Without economy, jobs, what is the use of an over-inflated mortgage unsustainable?

    Stolen Swiss Std, CPF, HDB: If PAP were to be able to deliver asset enhancement and subsequent retirement sufficiency, how can using CPF for HDB housing a bad thing?

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  • N.Jungne:

    There’s nothing in his bag this National Day.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Simon Lim

    GREAT WRITING – both PAPpys and peasants are trapped in a quagmire of quicksands of no escape.

    Python 5: let these old ppl empty their CPFs completely to buy a depreciating asset.

    in the end, the depreciating value of the flat indirectly helps the PAP erode the old ppl’s CPF. makes it an easier job for PAP not to release the CPF since eventually there will be very little or nothing at all to release.

    anyway, a lot of these old ppl worshipped PAP/LKY/LHL like gods.
    and if these old ppl commit suicide, its good for the opposition oppo supporters like me, since there will be fewer ppl voting for PAP.

    @ Python 5,A lot of The Merdeka & Pioneer generation are largely GREEDY AND STUPID TOGETHER.

    They hand-in-hand walked the PAPpy through their asset enhancement politics scam. That has BACKFIRED for both sides and PAPpy burnt their own vote bank accounts.

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  • HarderTruths:

    Nothing will change next GE.
    70% too strong and too loyal.
    Get ready for more pain in the a**.

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  • oxygen:

    @ PYTHON 5

    CANT BELIEVE READING THIS IN BLOOMBERG read – 34,000 retail investors got lured by the promise of 6% annual return bought into Hyflux debt raising offer.

    In a world of GLOBAL FALLING INTEREST RATE since the mid 1980s – THE MULTI-DECADE BOND BULL MARKET (falling interest rate yields) still could tempt buyers for such high risks investment.

    Either they are BOTH GREEDY UNLIMITED AND/OR STUPID TO IMPOSSIBILITY or BOTH or they live on a different planet from you and me.

    These retail investors gonna lose 90% of their invested capital.

    A LOT OF THE OLDIES IN THE MERDEKA AND PIONEER GENERATIONS ARE LIKE THIS.

    HOW TO FEEL SORRY FOR THEM?

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  • LIONS:

    Older sgs especially the jobless n retirees shud be allowed to buy HDB DIRECT after they have sold their private house instead of waiting for a few years to do so.

    Retirees are trying to cut cost of living n making them PAY HIGH RENTALS is simply not right.

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  • Bobo:

    The cancer cell has continued to spread. There’s no drug to control since after 2015. It’s a matter of time, new citizens will end up like old citizens. They and their family will follow our footsteps when MIW continue to exist and multiply in full force. MIW will continue to path the way for new citizens to reach their destination(target). Hohoho.

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  • clown pap liars:

    HarderTruths:
    Nothing will change next GE.
    70% too strong and too loyal.
    Get ready for more pain in the a**.

    since GE2015, in less than 4 years, everything price clown pap can raise is raised.

    GST would have gone up if the trial balloon had not shown up great displeasure of 70% sheep at the GST raise.

    we go to coffee shop every morning. sad to say the ground is still sheep. but there is one truth under heaven. 70% sheep not much S$ to hang on to. sooner or later 70% sheep must wake it. it is the law of economics.

    but until 70% sheep wakes up, all one can do is to hope clown pap squeezes 70% sheep deeper to speed up New Government formation.

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  • ah seng:

    @LIONS

    Agreed.
    The government must allow older singaporeans to buy HDB as soon as they sold their private.
    Why the delay?

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  • Python 5:

    those property agents will entice those stupid old folks to FALL FOR IT!!!!

    its a pappy trick:
    All i can say is DONT FALL FOR IT!
    Its akin to a noose around one’s neck.
    if PAP gets the majority to govern again for the next 5 years…many more will fall into desperate situations…mayb even suicide.

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  • Python 5:

    and the PAP hopes to bolster the prices of 2nd hand cars with super high mileage and win votes from their owners.

    imagine a 40year flat from a depreciating 250k go up to 750k.

    Dr. Chan:
    Using whole life savings to buy second hand car with super high mileage and 1 year left on COE.

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  • Python 5:

    oxygen, this is very clear.
    Basically this is season 2 of LKY’s HDB price will never go down.

    you can see a competition developing next.
    a competition to see which generation is more stupid.

    the Merdeka/Pioneer generation believing their aging flats is worth 500-800k or beyond.

    or

    the X/Y/Millenia generation taking a perpetual bank loan to pay 500-800k for an aging HDB flat.

    remember, BELIEVING your HDB flat is worth 500-800k is one thing.
    SELLING it at that price is another thing.

    oxygen: @ Python 5,A lot of The Merdeka & Pioneer generation are largely GREEDY AND STUPID TOGETHER.

    They hand-in-hand walked the PAPpy through their asset enhancement politics scam. That has BACKFIRED for both sides and PAPpy burnt their own vote bank accounts.

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  • Too many balless stupid:

    its a pappy trick:
    All i can say is DONT FALL FOR IT!
    Its akin to a noose around one’s neck.
    if PAP gets the majority to govern again for the next 5 years…many more will fall into desperate situations…mayb even suicide.

    But are the 50% Singaporeans unable to meet the retirement sum smart enough?
    Based on the last 53 years track record, they want there to be no opposition mp in parliament.

    Many are AFRAID of voting for opposition.

    They fear being marked or tracked.

    This is how stupid people are.
    A stupid will have a miserable sunset.

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  • Too many balless stupid:

    HarderTruths:
    Nothing will change next GE.
    70% too strong and too loyal.
    Get ready for more pain in the a**.

    Why did most of the 50% Singaporeans who are low income earners unable to get monthly payout due to unable to meet retirement sum vote for pap?

    The votes counted correctly. It’s not that they counted the wrong box.

    There is an unexplained gap between the oerceived sentiment on the ground vs the results.

    Yours truly
    Mr Magic
    Wife Swapper

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  • Making the situation worse:

    By allowing old people to use their CPF to buy old flats more retirement money is put into a basically depreciating asset. Doesn’t it also makes HDB a Ponzi scheme? A Singaporean using his/her CPF “takes out” another Singaporean whose CPF money is tied up in an over-valued, depreciating HDB flat. Who will “take out” the buyer?

    The best solution is for the Government to start topping up the CPF accounts of Singaporeans annually using its massive reserves and perennial budget surpluses. When they sell their HDB flat the total amount of the top up is deducted from the sale proceeds. HDB flat owners still need to sell their flats (and downgrade or sale and leaseback) asap to minimize further loses in the value of their CPF money tied up in their HDB flat.

    The era of the unsustainable property bubble is over. HDB flats are a depreciating asset because of the 99-year lease. Its value to the “owner” (actually lessee) is ZERO at the end of the lease, notwithstanding HIP1 or HIP 2. This is a fact.

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  • HDB a depreciating asset?:

    Making the situation worse:
    By allowing old people to use their CPF to buy old flats more retirement money is put into a basically depreciating asset.

    HDB flats are a depreciating asset because of the 99-year lease. Its value to the “owner” (actually lessee) is ZERO at the end of the lease, notwithstanding HIP1 or HIP 2. This is a fact.

    Is “HDB a depreciating asset”?
    NO, it is not as we are the lessee. We only lease it from HDB and I think it should be a sort of an expense. So I will consider it as a PREPAID RENT.

    I stand to be corrected as I am not an accountant.

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  • can we report CI to police?:

    HDB a depreciating asset?: Is “HDB a depreciating asset”?
    NO, it is not as we are the lessee. We only lease it from HDB and I think it should be a sort of an expense. So I will consider it as a PREPAID RENT.

    I stand to be corrected as I am not an accountant.

    agree with you bro, HDB is rental and is expense, not asset.

    the biggest joke is 70% sheep votes into power folks who BS them to pay property tax on HDB rental. we live in HDB and we also pay property tax, only because we have no choice due to stupidity of 70% sheep. we have NEVER voted pap never will. if pap gives S$300 in election year, we take, and vote OPPOSITION. if pap gives extra S$200 in election year, we take too, and still vote OPPOSITION.

    after all, pap did not give pap money to us. pap is giving our money back to us. so just take what pap gives and vote OPPOSITION.

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  • oxygen:

    @ HDB a depreciating asset?

    DEFINITELY NOT an asset. It is a LIABILITY of mortgage outstanding until fully paid-up. Once paid up only it becomes a PRE-PAID RENT.

    If you made – money on resale, they tax you on your next BTO, no escape if you made profit, presumably they undercharged you on prepaid rent on the first one.

    BUT IF YOU LOSE MONEY ON THE FIRST ONE, THEY DIAM DIAM DIAM.

    YOU PAID FOR THE LAND AND GOT NOTHING OF PROPERTY RIGHTS FOR THAT.

    HOW CAN HDB BE AN ASSET when it is LIABILITY ALL THE WAY??

    blockquote cite=”comment-1847664″>

    HDB a depreciating asset?: Is “HDB a depreciating asset”?
    NO, it is not as we are the lessee. We only lease it from HDB and I think it should be a sort of an expense. So I will consider it as a PREPAID RENT.

    I stand to be corrected as I am not an accountant.

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  • important or immediate needs:

    //By allowing old people to use their CPF to buy old flats more retirement money is put into a basically depreciating asset. Doesn’t it also makes HDB a Ponzi scheme? A Singaporean using his/her CPF “takes out” another Singaporean whose CPF money is tied up in an over-valued, depreciating HDB flat. Who will “take out” the buyer?//

    走火入魔. thought white idiots said need min sum for retirement. now old people can use cpf to buy old flats ??????

    alamak. white idiots should just allow people the option to withdraw cpf funds (their own money lar) early for their own important prioritized needs and spending rather than to satisfy the specific and exacting criteria of the white idiots which may not align nicely with the aspiration (important or immediate needs) of the cpf holders.

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  • Python 5:

    HDB flat is a lease. not an asset.

    you lease the flat from HDB, the same way a company leases a copier machine from Xerox. company pays an a fee to use that copier every month until the lease is up.

    Asset depreciation charges are not borne by you.

    you pay lease charges to stay in that flat for 99 years.
    that is considered an expense.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Python 5

    HDB FLAT IS NOT EVEN A LEASE. You can’t even return the balance of your lease yet unconsumed. Even in HDB lease buy back arrangement you consented to (if you do), it will take the last 30 years only even if your residual unconsumed is 67 years.

    It is definitely NOT your example of a company leases a copier machine from Xerox.

    IT IS PREPAID RENT instead but the tenant (stated in your contract) paid for the loss of value by way of depreciation but HDB may collect a cut of “profit on resale” but DIAM DIAM DIAM if you lose money.

    you paid for the land but no rights therein too.

    IT IS A SHAM OF FAKE HOME OWNERSHIP.

    Python 5: HDB flat is a lease. not an asset.

    you lease the flat from HDB, the same way a company leases a copier machine from Xerox. company pays an a fee to use that copier every month until the lease is up.

    Asset depreciation charges are not borne by you.

    you pay lease charges to stay in that flat for 99 years.
    that is considered an expense.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Python 5

    WHAT IS A LEASE IN CONTRACT LAW? I checked it out. Here is the weblink.

    Phillips, J C — “Chattel Leasing – A Loophole in Consumer Protection” [1973] UQLawJl 5; (1973) 8(2) University of Queensland Law Journal 187

    http://www7.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/journals/UQLawJl/1973/5.html?context=1;query=financial%20lease%20%20%20+%20law%20rights%20%20;mask_path

    It states clearly – IN ALL LEASING AGREEMENT, THE LEGAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A LEASOR AND LESSEE IS ONE OF A BAILOR AND BAILEE.
    us

    And what is a bailor in law? Just Google – Bailor in law. It will come out as this-

    Bailment describes a legal relationship in common law where physical possession of personal property, or a chattel, is transferred from one person (the “bailor”) to another person (the “bailee”) who subsequently has possession of the property.

    HDB document clearly states it is the leasor and you are the tenant (lessee)
    both as the individual buyer conjunctively as the occupier taking dwelling (possesion) of the property (dwelling accommodation). You are NOT the owner of the dwelling or the land – just a lawful tenant.

    So it is prepaid rent with no property rights. On resale, if you make profit, there is resale levy – IF YOU OWNS THE FLAT, HOW CAN HDB EXACT AND EXTRACT YOUR PROFIT ON SALE??

    If it is a Zerox type lease, Xerox Corporation claims depreciation from tax as owner and the lessee get tax deduction as a business expense under tax law.

    DO YOU GET TAX DEDUCTION FOR YOUR MORTGAGE EXPENSES FROM IRAS?

    But, strange things happens, YOU PAID PROPERTY TAX instead of HDB who is owner and leasor.

    YOU GOT A ROTTEN DEAL OF A SHAM OF HOME OWNERSHIP MIRAGE AND FICTION.

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  • Nation Of Dumb Parrots:

    Parrots talk a length about HDB being a “depreciating assets” and “lease” only after PAP Lampar Wong said so.
    Previously when 3 grand stooges, 2 of which are still alive, talked about HDB asset enhancement, everyone parroted about assets.
    This is the problem with parrots, mind-locked, they talked at length within the boundaries set and think it’s a fixed scenario.

    By common recognition, Property is an asset, as scarce land is an asset. That’s the reason thieves desire and steal them.
    The lease can be converted to make it desirable, someone just have to do it since the land and maintenance have all along been paid by dafts, they should get what had been invested.
    SDP has already proposed feasible housing solutions, multi-tracked solutions to clear the current mess created by PAP, parrots can read them at leisure.

    Why can’t PAP come up with similar?? It’s very simple, because they are greedy.
    PAP has been so used to milking dafts that they wouldn’t want to give up such options easily. They are now dependant and addicted to getting the funds they had lost and squandered from naive dafts.

    Why keep a government when they created the mess and can’t resolve it, dragging every hardworking citizens into hardships? Why keep a government that has become arrogant and complacent, taking the voters for granted? These are questions educated parrots have to answer for themselves.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Nation of Dumb Parrots

    INDEED! HOW COULD PEASANTS STILL BUY INTO THIS PAPpy hoax of encouraging OLD AH SENGS to put more of their CPF savings into depreciating non-asset (actually liability) of aging public housing NO OWNERSHIP IN REALITY?

    LUDICROUS!!

    Nation Of Dumb Parrots: Parrots talk a length about HDB being a “depreciating assets” and “lease” only after PAP Lampar Wong said so.
    Previously when 3 grand stooges, 2 of which are still alive, talked about HDB asset enhancement, everyone parroted about assets.
    This is the problem with parrots, mind-locked, they talked at length within the boundaries set and think it’s a fixed scenario.

    NO NEED FOR ANY OXFORD, CAMBRIDGE, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS OR HARVARD-trained economist to either delude or teach peasants this – ASSET ENHANCEMENT POLITICS MUST BE A SCAM by its very insidious deceptive construct.

    Any economic literate peasant would ask this lunatic dilemma irreconcilable – HOW CAN “WEALTH” EVER BE CREATED SIMPLY BY SPECULATION of bubbles deliberately/artificially inflated which adds to NO PRODUCTION OF GOODS AND SERVICES OF VALUE?

    It has to be a rotten scam of transferring wealth from the peasants poor to the rich – NOTHING LESS.

    70% dafts still refuses to wake up!! How to pity them?

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  • Vote Smart:

    Imaging, if there is a PAP GRC dream team comprising Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Carlos Slim, Jack Ma, & Pony Ma standing for election this time round on a PAP ticket, vs a real live monkey, I will still vote for the monkey. Why? It’s the Party Whip, stupid. However good a PAP MP is, he cannot vote against his party and everyone knows PAP & Singapore are going downhill under Pinky’s hopeless leadershit.

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  • AJ:

    We played music chairs since very little, haven’t we learned anything from it?

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  • The PAP Thieves:

    Kick out PAP and make HDB a great asset again.

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