The clause in the Water Agreement – was it ‘at the 25 year mark’ or ‘any time after 25 years’

Malaysian Foreign Minister Saifuddin Abdullah

Malaysian Foreign Minister Saifuddin Abdullah has been quoted as saying that Malaysia will seek international arbitration if Singapore does not renegotiate the 1962 Water Agreement.

Up till today, many concerned Singaporeans have been following the developments of this issue: Reading about them in the local newspapers and watching Singapore’s Ministers speak about them in Parliament.

However, all that is only one sided. What Singaporeans have not read about – and this is the most crucial piece is the Water Agreement itself – is the clause on the water price revision.

There are 2 views to this:

Vivian Balakrishnan told Parliament that Malaysia has forfeited the right to revise the raw water price that it sells to Singapore because they didn’t do it in 1986/7, 25 years after the agreement was signed in 1962.

His counterpart has said that they have the right to renegotiate the water price any time after 25 years from 1962 and not at the 25th year only. There is a world of difference between “after 25 years” or “at the twenty fifth year”.

Singapore cannot stop the Malaysians from seeking international arbitration if they so wish to. As an independent country with good international standing, we must never be seen or misunderstood by anyone as fleecing Malaysia with clever or cunning play of words.

As a concerned citizen, I would strongly urge Vivian Balakrishnan to enlighten Singaporeans on the question of whether it was “any time after 25 years or on the twenty-fifth year only”.

 

Simon Lim

 

 

Sponsored Content

41 Responses to “The clause in the Water Agreement – was it ‘at the 25 year mark’ or ‘any time after 25 years’”

  • I really don’t see whats the big deal about Malaysia raising the raw water prices. Just let them raise, no harm at all so why cry father cry mother.

    If the price of raw water is raised, can always reciprocate by increasing the sales price for treated water wat, dio bo?

    Then sell to Malaysia or local Singaporeans also can still cover the Millister’s multi-million pay wat. Not enough then raise the domestic water prices by another 10% lor. Still not enough, then raise GST and Electricity prices lor, very difficult meh?

    Of course must raise only after GE 2019 after receiving a strong mandate from the 70% “dafts” lor. lol

    .

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Bapak:

    Dont everyone knows lj pap always playa with words. Like inside not within. India also Malay.

    Vivian, pls courier pap dictionery to MY. They dont understand your language.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • who's twisting the meaning?:

    malu oredy.
    took a msian minister to highlight to our cambridge or oxford ed ministers how to interpret that “25years clause”.
    SGov better accept that these days msia is not the msia of old , can easily bamboozle.
    only sgs are daft enuf to believe everything our gov tells us.
    these days Malaysia Boleh, Singapura Bodoh!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • what paps gonna do?:

    this minister also said in another report that Msia is working towards self sufficiency in treated water. so how SG?
    they have so much land in mmsia, enuf to build a water purification /or desalination plant in every state if they want to..
    then if they decide not to sell raw water to sg anymo, what will our “brilliant’ PAP going to do?

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Spineless Sinkie Syndrome:

    Before any analysis can be made, you need to have the actual wording from the original contract to be quoted here word for word. That is the nature of legal documents.

    The actual wording is important, so without the actual contract clauses, we cannot say anything conclusive here.

    However, some interesting facts have spilled into the open due to this cross-border spat.
    In particular, the HUGE (few hundred percentage points!) profit margins of our utilities provider over a time span of more than half a century since independence.

    Needless to say, Sinkies did not gain any economic savings at all nor will they gain any advantage regardless of the final negotiated cost price of water bought from our neighbor.

    Want to make a guess WHO ate up all the fat profit margins for more than 50 years?

    https://www.singapore-herald.com/1536/

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • clown pap liars:

    we are Spore citizens completed NSF and NSR. we are jobless in a land where the clown pap clan members pay each other S$m via a pliant parleeement.

    we have HDB rental. worth nothing at end of rental lease. so there is not much we have to live for. so if Msia wants to cut water, cut. we believe Msia govt is telling the truth and the clown pap ah neh bala is lying.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • No Dafts or Dogs Allowed:

    Better not.
    What happens if he asks: “Do you want to bathe in a HDB flat, public toilet or the toxic Punggol river?”

    Simon Lim:
    As a concerned citizen, I would strongly urge Vivian Balakrishnan to enlighten Singaporeans on the question of whether it was “any time after 25 years or on the twenty-fifth year only”.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • NotMyProblem:

    Same case as “within 200M radius of polling station and inside 200M” is the same meh?

    So “after 25 years” is same as “the 25th year”.

    Don’t think Malaysians are stupid! They sensed something wrong with 1MDB and voted out the Official Numbor Satu. Singapore has more graduates than Malaysia, but Singaporeans cannot even tell how much in the Reserve, no idea of CPF, GIC, GLC, Temasick and what were the CEOs’ paid.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Dr Tan Tai Wei:

    Have to see the document. Offhand, seems odd that any agreement could ever spell that re-negotiation can take place only on the twenty-fifth year. Makes more sense that it says present agreement to last at least 25 years, after which only can new negotiations be initiated. Silly to agree to only that year for any new agreement, after which parties are bound till many years later. What so special about that year? Whatever predicted would happen that year to need new negotiation surely could also happen any year after?

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Great Asia:

    Remind you, we are being ruled by English educated bananas. These people can only think in Black and White; they can only think in “I win” versus “You lose”.

    Even our angmoh worshipping also behave such as way.

    As a Singapore, do you have access to the Malaysian side of the argument?

    No!

    Why?

    Because the PAP bananas already told you that the Malaysian government was wrong!

    Ha ha ha!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Water angst rising:

    It’s hard for me to stomach this ministerial squabble while ordinary HDB Joe has to pay about 200 times more for 1000-gallons of treated water than the 4¢ we charge Malaysia for the same volume.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • patriot of TUMASIK:

    As I see it the Scudai waterworks which was built in the 60s was a joy for both Nations THEN!!!… Then Disaster Struck a bast**d who would NOT relinquish his Title of PM when we merge with Malaya since he had plans to be the next PM of Malaysia when all other states carry the title of Chief Minister…

    Racist and Social Democrat, so he called for a Malaysian Malaysia that did NOT go well and was BOOTED out even after an attempt to assassinate him in Cameron Highlands was HOW BAD it was…

    And…TODAY what you see is what he wanted and you sheeple will Pay & Pay till the day his Dynasty is destroyed

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Every contract can be broken:

    There is no such thing as a eternally unnegotiable contract after 25years.
    Bala may lose face this time. Hhaaha

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • PAP ' English To Outfox:

    Can Withdraw CPF at 65, But Must Request For It. Your OWN Money.

    Inside 200 meters But Not Within 200 meters.

    Malay Muslim, Indian also Muslim, Therefore Indian is equal to Malay.

    If don’t sign objection, your own organs will be taken out for others after your death.

    After 25 years , At 25 Years. In the 1960 I paid 20 cents for bus fare from Paya Lebar to River Valley Rd. Can still pay 20 cents now ?

    They think they are very smart but in the end they will be played out wholesale. Win Battle but lose the main War.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • N.Jungne:

    Since the British days, the Central Government is unclear who is responsible for the Water Agreement. Let us start from here.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • LIONS:

    Well,when PAP also TOLD us that HDB IS FOR HOUSING SGS MAKING SURE ALL SGS CAN OWN THEIR OWN.
    NOW,the same PPL who are holding Malaysia to the WATER AGREEMENT has broken so many *AGREEMENTS* THEY MADE WITH US?

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • HDB contract leh?:

    Singaporeans were told both inside and outside Parliament by big big ministers that price will always go up.

    Ins’t this a contract?

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Supressing my laughter:

    Land acquisition act passed as law and you take over land/property and pay compensation based on your valuation. Who to challenge you? Those whose land/property taken over knows how heartache feeling lah. Many today do not know what their fathers and grandfathers had gone through. Documents also untraceable.
    Land acquired for common public use now based on today’s market value. That’s okay
    Bolakissson said:
    “It is about the fundamental principle of respecting the sanctity of agreements,” he said, adding that Dr M’s words were a “red herring” intended to rouse public opinion.”
    So takeover peoples’ land/property, that’s okay based on changed rules, regulations and law set from the 60s.
    Now 1927 agreement and talking about “fundamental principle of respecting the sanctity of agreements”, how do you relate those strong lofty pure high words that to honour agreements and basic understanding but okay to turned Indian to Malay, and extend CPF pullout age, and “over my dead body” popping up of two casinos.
    What do you make of that…..fundamental principle…..respect…..sanctity.
    Honorable words.
    Something is amiss.
    It’s twisted.
    Doesn’t add up.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • rukidding:

    I did say Vivian’s interpretation is wrong !

    He thinks that Malaysia is “stupid” and trys to be “cheeky” !

    If GO International Court,…I say Vivian and Pap will Lose !

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Be a good neighbor:

    As neighbors for life, both should sit down and talk and come up with a new reasonable agreement acceptable to both sides.
    The value and measure of things have changed enormously since 1927.
    Avoid nitpicking on words.
    Be honest and open with each other.
    Understand the current position and situation.
    Work towards a fair win-win solution.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • I get up if hear something loo:

    What will happen to Bala if the court determines that the price can still be negotiated?

    Will this taint his image?
    How will the millionaire’s ego be affected ?

    His daughter a lawyer? Got give him advice on contract law?

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • plse settle, dun fight:

    Mahathir says that if msia brings this up to the International Courts, SG will lose.
    maybe thats best.
    cant afford to go to war over something that can be avoided.
    if our malay muslim neigbouring countries gang up on us, we’re gonners.
    as everyone knows these days “it only takes a spark to get the fire going”..

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • HarderTruths:

    No law is written so as to allow arbitration for a specific 25-year and then close the door.

    Pappies try to change the english language to suit themselves. International Court will side with Malaysia for sure. Do not forget China is behind Malaysia. Who dares say no to China softpower nowadays?

    $G stupidly chose USA. Who gives a sh*t about USA nowadays (besides pappies)?

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Alternative Plan For Vivian:

    If Singapore loses becos of your English, then we shall fight a war with Malaysia. We will sure win like what Dr M said about Malaysia if go to the UN.

    We the citizens and Reservists will charge up Johore hills and take over the state in one week. But on condition that PAP sell Singaporeans water at one and the half cent per 1000 gallons.

    Agree ? if not then Vivian and the 80 PAP MPs can form a company and charge up Johore led by our BG Lee excluding all the Reservists.

    We got nothing to look forward to in our life. Done 2 years NSF and NSR,end up not able to get jobs cos PAP allow FTs into our island to take our jobs. Father bought expensive HDB flat using CPF and end up all the money will be gone after 99 years and cannot let us inherit the house. All the CPF cannot be withdrawn very soon as they implement a lot of tricky laws to prevent us from taking out our CPF money.

    At the same time, Cost Of Living increases as they create laws such as GST, 30 per cent water tax, Carbon tax, sugar tax, University tax, ERP By Satellite tax and most probably Condom Tax.

    Why do the PAP want to force the citizens to commit suicide ?

    Don’t push the citizens to a corner as there are more than one million Reservists who have been trained in the art of war.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • from the OED:

    Phrase:
    ‘to call a spade a spade’

    Meaning:
    To speak plainly without avoiding unpleasant or embarrassing issues.

    Eg.: “It is beyond agreeing to disagree; tis time to call a spade a spade.”

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Boy:

    Lucky daftness is contained here.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • 25 years is already long time:

    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the things you did.”
    - Mark Twain

    Quote…….
    Remember this?
    A lot can change in 25 years. Look at this list of what happened in 1990:
    George H W Bush was wrapping up his presidency
    Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait (the 1st Gulf war)
    Saturn was launched as a new car company by GM (ending in 2010)
    The Simpsons first aired on Fox (now over 500 episodes strong)
    The first web page was published on the WWW
    East and West Germany reunite
    Milli Vanilli won a Grammy and then were revealed to lip sync on the album
    The Dow Jones closed at 2633
    A gallon of gas cost $1.34
    I began my junior year of high school
    Looking that information up, I have to be honest…I forgot a lot of it.
    (25 years is a long time.
    Posted on April 17, 2015 by Andy Bondurant in Growth, Story)
    Unquote

    Quote….
    Climate Change
    Scientists say 25 years left to fight climate change

    PRI’s The World
    September 13, 2018 · 4:45 PM EDT
    Unquote……
    By Craig Miller

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Yes:

    Singaporean Chinese rather be English educated bananas than China-Chinese indoctrinated zombies.

    The choice is clear.

    Great Asia:
    Remind you, we are being ruled by English educated bananas. These people can only think in Black and White; they can only think in “I win” versus “You lose”.

    Even our angmoh worshipping also behave such as way.

    As a Singapore, do you have access to the Malaysian side of the argument?

    No!

    Why?

    Because the PAP bananas already told you that the Malaysian government was wrong!

    Ha ha ha!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Monkey said he will get up:

    So was Singapore really kawan with Malaysia all these decades of leaders retreat and treating each other Malaysia durian?

    Would good neighbors say things to each other like this ?

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • want to wayang, they can wayan:

    //Pappies try to change the english language to suit themselves. International Court will side with Malaysia for sure. Do not forget China is behind Malaysia. Who dares say no to China softpower nowadays?//

    aiyoh. not necessary lar. you will be amazed judgment (like roti prata) can turn out either both ways in the most unexpected manner. judges are good in coming out with judgment (explanation in long-winded complex jargons and technicalities sometimes more to confuse rather than to enlighten) that perhaps only they themselves or aliens from outer world will understand.

    this whole wayang process with all the grandiose layout and overpowering setting of court house / room (including furniture) brings sanctity to an authoritative peaceful settlement rather than going the way of knuckle duster.

    now going back to negotiation. if want to renegotiate, can negotiate lar. if don’t want to renegotiate, then also can don’t negotiate lar. it is the will to do it lar.

    just like permit given to perform one day, then on the actual day of going to perform, permit canceled. waste everyone’s time, cost and resources – including national resources run by idiots.

    in sinkie land, as long as the white idiots want to wayang, they can wayang. if they don’t want to wayang, also can don’t wayang. they have a lot of slick plp white idiotic eunuchs who can turn and twist until the english language and words become ‘corrupted’ or ‘bastardized’ – e.g 4 = 5 and selected = elected.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Fake Nepalese:

    One idiot thinks the world court is in Singapore.
    I laughed uncontrollably.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • a PG:

    One thing bad I feel, is the SG ruling elites keep changing rules, constitutions, regulations, etc to CPF, HDB, MOH, GE, PE, etc that upset many of own citizens. Only the elites can understand the rules, etc and their interpretations are in their favour. The worst are those 3G/4G smart alecs are receiving $$$millions each year, but not the “Ah Sengs”. No wonder the Malaysian ministers always perceive SG is a rich country, all becos our elites salaries they are getting and also they are enjoying the so-called Swiss standard of living when they retire. Sigh !

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • George luvs Priest:

    Without External forces China and Malaysia, no opposition can give them such a tight slap.
    WP? You got to be kidding!!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • TUCK WAN:

    Indian Muslim is Malay then Ang Mio
    Buddhist is Chinese. It’s that simple dafts !

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • No:

    Yes:
    Singaporean Chinese rather be English educated bananas than China-Chinese indoctrinated zombies.

    The choice is clear.

    U R talking to yourself?

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Perspective:

    SG could lose the case if it goes to international court because the clause in the Agreement does not say that the price review has to be “at” the 25th year, but “after” the 25th year. Unless there were other new considerations (post-1986/87) that SG has given in exchange to keep the price at 3 sens/1000gal until 2061, Dr M will not stop pursuing this matter.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • u get what u sow:

    PM Mahathir and his new ‘ballsy’ gov must be a living nightmare to our shitty PAP gov these days. PAPs always thought that the world evolves around them with their “do as i say” attitude and fixing opps left right n centre.u
    Now the 92yo Dr M is making them see reality.
    Dr M indirectly is doing us a big favour.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Singapore Blink First ?:

    Finally they have a meeting At KL yesterday after Malaysia mentioned that they will go to World Court to settle the Water price issue. Paying one Singapore cent for 1000 gallons from 1960s to now ?

    Who initiate this meeting first ? I guess must be our yaya papaya Vivian becos he flew to Wisma Putra to meet the Malaysian Foreign Minister and other officials.

    There he said that he will solve the problems issue by issue. Stupid it is all interconnected to the price of water. Malaysia has a lot of weapons to use against us (eg reduce food supplies and other items such as cement, timber etc,,).

    We have very few effective weapons against them. One is to disallow their motorbike workers to work in Singapore. That will be like slapping your own face becos our factories will have to stop all operations. Stop selling them our treated water? With petrol revenue they can easily build their own treatment plant in Johore. What then ?

    These negotiations are a waste of time. Vivian we did not pay you a high salary to do unproductive work. You will be able to kick the can further down for a while. But for how long ?

    I predict that the ultimate result is that we offer them a fairer and higher price for the water. All problems will be solved immediately.

    Don’t behave like a yaya papaya stupid bull and keep on charging. They are not Singaporeans who are timid and can be bullied at times.

    Just eat humble pie and take a step backward and have less headache for everybody and solve this unnecessary problem immediately.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • KonYew said he will get up:

    An article reported as follows :

    On Mar 12, he said, “Clause 14 of the agreement states that “it shall be subject to review after the expiry of 25 years from the date of these presents…”, not at the 25th year. As such, I do not understand the type of English used by the Singapore Foreign Minister, given his interpretation. We respect agreements, that is why we say we can review the agreement after 25 years.”

    I THINK BALA BOY GONNA EAT HIS SHOES.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • balek sekolah:

    our ministers should all go back to school to learn proper english.
    took a malaysian minister to point out the Correct meaning of the 25years clause.
    MY-1 SG-0

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  • Lori:

    the meaning of emeritus 2019

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
Member Services
Self-SupportMembers Login
Sponsored Advertisement

Search On TR Emeritus
Sponsored Advertisement

Most Recent Comments
  • MarBowling: Ministers resign in protest: May 24, 2019 at 3:36 am (Quote) You don’t think this is about Singapore, do...
  • mike: http://theindependent.sg/over- half-of-singaporeans-support-a nti-fake-news-bill-yougov-rese arch/ This is one...
  • nihon: wp holders can marry sgs. I have fren who has masters and married a domestic helper. now they have kids and...
  • Ministers resign in protest: You don’t think this is about Singapore, do you? It’s about UK. Ministers...
  • Note to kenneth j: Whatever it is notwithstanding;nothing we can do ; we have to be careful and not cross the line...
  • TruBlu: Lets just say,there is only ONE RULER. The rest are just saying what they have been instructed. It is...
  • Great Asia try to hard: In China, people also worship Mao like a deity in a Taoist temple.
  • Ho, ho, ho! HoLee Baloney?: TREA$URE TROVE OF TRILLION$ - Alibaba is 阿李 の ばば (‘old aunty’) in disguise...
  • Ho, ho, ho! HoLee Baloney?: Oh, and have I mentioned? The other goodie$ (that anyone can logically come up with, no...
  • C’est la vie: ***** Bala’s a perfect fit for the Action Party. Overspend public money and has no regrets. Selfie with...
  • Ho, ho, ho! HoLee Baloney?: I have said this countless times before, and I will say it again: Your first family (for...
  • William C: Political party cannot have foreign funding. If yes, the is considered more interfering in domestic...
  • William C: Leadership without a vision? Just follow orders from PM3. Just a Manager level job can take million...
  • William C: Drawing salaries on par with CEO but not taking accountability like them. When economy is no good, blame...
  • William C: If say negative thing then is interfering domestic PLUS faked news now
  • William C: Sinkies are uniqued. They don’t care about all these. As long as they have a job, an income, a HDB,...
Announcements
Advertisements
Advertisements
Visitors Statistic
Latest Statistic