The Truth, The Light and The Messiah

The Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Bill gives Singapore Ministers amongst other powers the power to decide what is fake news under the proposed law.

Singapore’s Gods of lies and falsehoods were divined in Parliament yesterday. Singapore Cabinet Ministers will be the ultimate arbiters of what is true and what is a false claim or view and I have no doubt that no one not even a judge in a court of law will be allowed to review that Minister’s decision.

While they say that the proposed law “does not cover opinions, criticisms, satire or parody, which the public can continue to upload and share”, it is in reality very difficult in some cases to draw the line between a false claim or view and a benign opinion or criticism as often times these criticisms are based on assumptions of some underlying factual matrix or involve mixed fact and opinion.

This will become the most egregious attack on our freedom of speech ever. The proposed law will not save us from falsehoods but will consign us to a future of PAP falsehoods. The proposed law will allow the ruling party to propagate it’s false propaganda and stop Singaporean’s from challenging their falsehoods.

 

Khush Chopra

 

 

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28 Responses to “The Truth, The Light and The Messiah”

  • oxygen:

    KRUSH CHOPRA,

    PLEASE ALLOW ME TO SHARE THIS THOUGHT with you on the difference between fact and opinion in law application.

    Upcounsel:Fact or Opinion
    In libel and defamation actions it’s a general rule that no remedy can be had for a statement that was issued in the form of an opinion.

    The distinction between a statement of fact and one of opinion is frequently difficult. In characterizing a statement, courts must look at it not as lawyers and judges but by placing ourselves in the position of the hearer or reader, and determine the sense or meaning of the statement according to its natural and popular construction.

    In short, the measure is not the effect of the statement on a mind trained in the law, but by the natural and probable effect upon the mind of the average reader. (Baker v. Los Angeles Herald Examiner (1986) 42 Cal.3d 254, 260.) Accordingly, “what constitutes a statement of fact in one context may be treated as a statement of opinion in another, in light of the nature and content of the communication taken as a whole.” (Gregory v. McDonnell Douglas Corp. (1976) 17 Cal.3d 596, 601.)

    https://www.upcounsel.com/legal-def-fact-or-opinion

    SO IN A FEW WORDS, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN FACT AND OPINION.

    AND I KNOW THAT IN ACCOUNTING, FINANCE AND GEOLOGY APPLICATIONS IN THE DOMAIN OF CORPORATE LAW, IT IS A LOT WORST.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Khush Chopra

    THE FAKE NEWS LEGISLATION IS PRETENDING TO BE GOD of selected few when all of us is human.

    Jurisprudence Professor Hart of Oxford University said the respect for the legality is unfortunately compatible with too much iniquity.

    HE IS RIGHT.

    THE PUBLIC MIND OF AH SENGs peasant simplicity don’t comprehend this.

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  • why suffered in silence:

    Are the ministers qualified and capable of deciding impartially what constitues fake news? Shouldn’t that be the jurisdiction of the judges who are legal professionals?

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  • pap clown is a shame:

    why all the lament?

    all that is needed is a united effort in OPPO coalition that topples clown pap. after all New Government must form when clown pap is toppled. with New Government, everyone can bring to notice all the lies wrongs committed, whether by omission or by commission, by pap clown and wife and their S$m of parleeement approved thieves.

    stop talking as if clown pap rules forever. it is a lie.

    the truth is, the more clown pap commits against 70% sheep, the faster it is toppled and parleeement is renamed parliament.

    with all the BS barriers set up against OPPO under clown pap, once pap is toppled, it cannot never enter parliament again. because the same BS barriers now come back to haunt this group of self enriched parleeement approved thieves.

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  • LIONS:

    i dont care,i want the COUNTRY’S MOST FAKE NEWS TO BE TAKEN DOWN AND THE AUTHOR BE REPRIMANDED.
    WHAT SMORE FAKE NEWS THAN *FTs will create more jobs for sgs*???

    who said that?

    all these ministers cannot be anymore hypocritical,they are beyond hope of redemption.

    they shud be striked by *LIGHTNING* itself for THEIR ATROCITIES.

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  • opposition dude:

    What will definitely be considered fake news and not an opinion is when someone says something about the courts being pliant. Just look at Shengwu who cannot balek for as long as uncle is PM.

    Since ministers can decide if something is fake news then we do have to wonder why judges are needed? All that is required is for a minister or two to say something is fake can liao. Guy gets arrested and thrown into Changi Prison, judges just pass sentence gao dim already.

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  • N.Jungne:

    Wah!!! How lucky we are, every PAP Ministers and MPs are experts in differentiating between True and Fakes

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  • oxygen:

    IN GEOLOGY, WHAT IS TRUE OR FALSE IS NEVER SO CLEAR-CUT OF EXTRACTABLE RESERVES OF OIL AND GAS FIELDS yet financial reporting deadline for these entities to supply a volumetric estimate in geologically-measured quantum from which to derive a financial valuation number.

    THESE ARE STATUTORY DEMANDS IN CORPORATE LAW AND MEETING WITH FINANCIAL REGULATORY FRAMEWORK OF ALL LISTED ENTITIES. Yet with the best technical skills and competence of all parties, the outcome often comes up short.

    Take a look at US securities and exchange commission attempts to sue and punish Anglo-Dutch Shell. It fall flat BECAUSE IT CAN’T BE PROVEN OF FRAUD, NOT EVEN FALSITY OF NEGLIGENCE.

    “Shell escaped criminal charges in the US today after a federal prosecutor decided that bringing the Anglo-Dutch oil giant to court over last year’s reserves scandal would not be in the public interest.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/jun/30/oilandpetrol.news

    if the US SEC AND/OR UK Fraud Office pursued Shell to final litigation, the sitting judges would have NO DECISION WHATSOEVER OF JUSTIFIABLE CRIMINAL OUTCOME ADJUDICATION.

    Judges would be confronted with a ridiculous stalement of NOT knowing what IS THE CORRECT RESERVE ESTIMATE SHOULD BE which no geologists can agree upon.

    In actual production scenario, geological and production drilling conditions might suddenly change disrupting the productivity of oil fields and total output availability just like this Tindalo-1 oil well in Philippines in 2011.

    https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20111027/pdf/42231w5s8c498j.pdf

    The write off for Kairiki Energy was US$30 million of just one small oil field.

    DO WE THEN TAKE OUT THE GEOLOGIST AND THE FINANCIAL ACCOUNTANT TO BE SHOT FOR FRAUD OF FAKE NEWS IN FINANCIAL REPORTING?

    If in analogy of fake news publishing, is the judge going to tell the defendant this – I DON’T KNOW IF IS FAKE OR REAL NEWS BUT I CONVICT YOU AS GUILTY AS CHARGED.

    OR WOULD THE JUDGE TELLS THE MINISTER, I CAN’T SHAME YOU FOR BRINGING ME INTO THIS UNQUANTIFIABLE FAKE OR GENUINE NEWS, I CAN’T HUMILIATE MYSELF OR YOU, SO I SHALL SENTENCE THE ACCUSED AS GUILTY AS CHARGED??

    WHICH IS THE CORRECT ANSWER?

    I don’t know.

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  • oxygen:

    THERE IS NOW A LOT OF PUBLIC OUTCRY ON THE ACCOUNTING/AUDIT AND DISCLOSURE STATEMENTS PUT OUT BY HYFLUX which ACRA is said to be investigating.

    Hyflux has been cash flow negative for several years and its auditors not raising the red flags. THERE MAYBE OR MAYBE NOT COMPELLING OPERATIONAL CONSIDERATION THAT HYFLUX HAVE OR MAY NOT HAVE ADVANCED BEYOND THE “GOING CONCERN” SOLVENCY ISSUE which the directors and the auditors may or may not be aware of before grinding to an operational halt suddenly.

    Until a full investigation is done, we don’t know BUT IF SOCIAL MEDIA STARTS PUBLISHING CHALLENGING ASSERTIONS OF HIS/HER CLAIMED FACTS with financial figures in public records which is disputable of assumptions made, SHOULD A BLOGGER BE CHARGED WITH FAKE NEWS PUBLICATION BEFORE A FULL COMPLETED INVESTIGATION REACHED ITS CONCLUSION?

    HOW COULD A SITTING JUDGE DETERMINE THE OFFENDING BLOGGER OF ALLEGEDLY FAKE NEWS DECIDES THE GUILTY/INNOCENCE OUTCOME when the investigation into Hyflux accounting/audit compliance is YET INCOMPLETE OR PERHAPS ENDING AS INCONCLUSIVE LIKE ANGLO DUTCH SHELL CASE?

    COME ON – truth and falsity is never so clear-cut when it comes to law’s determination.

    In such hypothetical situations, DOES THE MINISTER OR THE JUDGE KNOWS THE CORRECT ANSWER – if there is ever a correct answer of truth and falsity in each instances?

    PAPpys are playing GOD of divine determinations.

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  • NotMyProblem:

    This was what Dr. Mahathir warned on the Fake news law; “We do not want any government, whether this or succeeding governments, to make use of this law in order to tell and create fake news in order to sustain themselves. Of course it will be difficult to handle, but we believe we can accept the challenges and we can handle that.”

    But SG’s PM Lee wanted this precisely for himself. Not what he claimed that it would work for Singapore. Singapore and Singaporeans have nothing to benefit from such laws!!

    From his following actions you know the fake news laws is to protect himself.

    Why was there a requirement to change the constitution for a Malay President and desperately denounced 4 is 5. But ended selecting an Indian as a Malay President? Wasn’t this to protect himself?

    After the announcement the HDB value becomes zero after 99-year lease, he lied about the HIP2 and VERS without detail of it implementation which would only be in 20 years time, if it does happened. This again was to protect himself.

    GRC was to ensure minority representation in Parliament, but it was the Chinese who needed GRC to enter Parliament. He knew that minority was capable of being voted into Parliament but kept the GRC, so that his Chinese YES men/women could be voted with it.

    When asked why no minority MPs in a GRC, we were told that minority representation is only at the time of election, after election it was not necessary. This was to prevent a by-election in a GRC.

    So is this what Dr. Mahathir anticipated “.. to make use of this law in order to tell and create fake news in order to sustain” himself in power?

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  • oxygen:

    IT IS NOT JUST ACCOUNTING, FINANCE WORLD IS EVEN MORE SEXY. A group of speculators/gamblers bought a nickel miner Down Under WHICH THE AUDITORS, LEGALLY AND CORRECTLY, warned serious doubt that it is financially solvent as and when the debt falls due i.e. failed the “going concern” test.

    They paid less than A$0.30 per share. None of them know a chicken sh*t on financial accounting, no one read the miner’s publicly released announcements or its financial report including annual report in that year.

    Six months after the auditor’s flagged warning, the share price of this miner rocket up to $1.80.

    Why?

    Financial bankruptcy was never on the mind of the miner’s Board of Director which added a new director before its annual report. Those speculators knew something not disclosed in the annual report – THE INCOMING DIRECTOR IS A MINING TYCOON WITH FINANCIAL CAPACITY OF WELL OVER HUNDRED MILLION. He won’t let the miner down!

    TRUE TO MARKET READ, THE MINER PROSPERED AND THEY SIGNED LONG-TERM SALES CONTRACT WITH CHINA JINCHUAN.

    The share price rocketed up DESPITE AUDITOR’S RED FLAG WARNING.

    The moral of the story is the GENUINE NEWS of accounting-read financial insolvency in this miner is FAKE NEWS of market reality of its strong financial standing.

    someone writing online that this miner is financially very strong could be sued for FAKE NEWS PUBLISHING -looking from accounting numbers.

    instead the accounting numbers of sworn audit suggest the opposite is in fact FAKE NEWS.

    HOW DO THE JUDGE RECONCILE FAKE NEWS WITH GENUINE NEWS IN THIS INSTANCE? The judge might never invested in shares to know that the miner’s incoming director is a man of great financial wealth and public standing in the investment world.

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  • To the Liar and Conniver:

    “A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool… Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.”
    - William Shakespeare

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  • Anon:

    @oxygen: ‘SO IN A FEW WORDS, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN FACT AND OPINION’.
    Your point is well made as is the quote you relied on, but the problem lies at the root of language. it is because of an inherent difficulty in the structuring of reality by language that creates this predicament we face. This is already intimated in the Latin roots from which the word ‘fact’ derive ‘factum’ and ‘facere’ both of which mean ‘to fabricate’!! So facts are ‘fabrications’. The word fact is even etymologically linked to ‘fiction’; so fiction and ‘faction’. Finally, those who subscribed to an alternative process metaphysics, in contrast to Aristotelian substantialist metaphysics, have noted that ‘one side makes “fact” ultimate, the other side makes process ultimate’ (A.N.WHITEHEAD, Process and Reality). If you understand ‘facts’ from this process metaphysics, they are ultimately fabricated and parsed our from an ever-fluxing and changing reality according to a specific paradigm of comprehension. Truth and power hence are inextricable from one another.

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  • PAP Root of All Evils:

    Any laws exercise by crooks will be nefarious.

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  • Self Check Self:

    Any law in the hands of crooks will be nefarious.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Anon

    THANK YOU FOR THE REJOINDER, you explained the inherent difficulty of language in the structuring of reality.

    Anon: @oxygen: ‘SO IN A FEW WORDS, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN FACT AND OPINION’.
    Your point is well made as is the quote you relied on, but the problem lies at the root of language. it is because of an inherent difficulty in the structuring of reality by language that creates this predicament we face.

    My illumination to Khush Chopra and TRE readers on even the COGNITIVE DIFFICULTY in differentiating falsehoods and reality in accounting, finance and geology of just a few limited instances REVEAL HOW FAR DETACHED FROM REALITY the PAPpypolitics mindset have drifted into fallen self-delusion.

    I don’t know if this is psychotic failure, determined repression or just plain incompetence in little crisis management or all these failings together.

    But I am convince that PAPpypolitics is detached from reality. Look at how our neighbor respond to fake news publishing by surgical means at its contextual relevance or irrelevance and OUR CONTRASTING WHOLESALE BASHING OF SOCIAL MEDIA.

    THE WORST THING OF DECISION-MAKING IN CRISIS MANAGEMENT is to try to make a run for it RESORTING to the HOLISTIC (sledgehammer) “solution” instead of the CONTEXTUAL which is ever evolving in unmanageable turbulence.

    Why?

    The turbulent environment keeps changing the contextual and that is the REALITY OF THE CONTEXTUAL CONTINUALLY INVALIDATING THE HOLISTIC PERCEPTION OF IMAGINED STATE OF CRISIS ENVELOPING – THE DECISION-MAKER blind or blissfully ignorant of.

    It is like the proverbial emperor living the mountaintop experiences detached from the governed and peasantry. The peasants supply the tax/wealth, bring the food, and removing the palatial waste excreted. Cool winds, fresh air and unobstructed beauties feasts the mind and vision of fake security and calm pride WITHOUT KNOWING THAT RAIN AND WIND KEEPS ERODING THE BASE OF MOUNTAIN ROCK. One fine day or night of quiet blissful enjoyment, the palace tips over and fell into the ravine thousands of metres below. The incumbents didn’t know why sudden death came visiting and the nation vanishes thereafter.

    The moral of this illumination?

    Crisis is managing PAPpypolitics now, not the other way around. Mahathir learns from experience and PAPpypolitics resides in their old irrelevant mindset of self-delusion and utter failure.

    VOTERS HAVE TO REMOVE THEM.

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  • oxygen:

    PAPpypolitics and PAPpynomics STAND OUT AS ROBOTICS AND THEY ARE MONOTONIC OF INCOMPETENCE. LEE-jiapore’s sustainable survival DOES NOT AND CANNOT be forged and sustain on population recycling economics adding up to 10 million or more – SUCCESSIVE ECONOMIC STRATEGIES COMMITTEES have warned of this BUT IN REALITY IGNORED.

    Neither is our future rest on the complex mathematics of econometric model or AI replacing labor. The answer is found here.

    The causal texture of the organisational environment.

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/001872676501800103

    Read this in the Australian national library decades ago. It is UNSTOPPABLE, the ever changing external environment keeps re-shaping organisational texture, relentlessly which is powerless to reshape its external causal intrusion. Any attempts to resist will fail to utter futility of shutting down turbulence.

    No PAPpy minister ever utter the expletive called “turbulence” on the public stage. It is political suicide to do so. The public minds of voters will ask- how uh?? in the face of an escalating waterfall of failed policies and incompetence.

    TO COVER ITS TRACKS, PAPpypolitics resort to HOLISTIC REPRESSION – the anti-fake news legislation must be near the pinnacle IF IT IS NOT YET THE PINNACLE OF STUPIDITY AND COVER-UP.

    THE CONTEXTUAL REALITY ALWAYS OVER-RIDE THE DELUSIONAL HOLISTIC.

    WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE SHOULD BE THE PREFERRED LAW ARCHITECT OF THIS PIECE OF FAKE NEWS LEGISLATION – NOT THE BRIGHTEST OF THE BRIGHTEST LEGAL EAGLE MIND/S.

    That ways his rotting corpse can at least laugh in mockery of self-entertainment of what EXTENT OF IDIOTIC IMPACT & DAMAGE TO LEE-jiapore OF HIS TRAGEDY OR COMEDY LEGISLATIVE CREATION.

    The peasants, on the receiving end of this damage at least will know the MESSIAH is FAKE OF COMPETENCE forget the much self-acclaimed meritocracy fiction.

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  • Harder Truths:

    So now if one day the Ministry of Truth (MoT) says you are Chinese you are Chinese. Next day they change their mind and say you are Malay then you must be Malay or else you are not telling the truth.

    Since the MoT is always telling the truth – the facts have absolutely no meaning in deciding what the truth is.

    Milo was the first test case for the MoT implementation. $G citizens did not care very much so the MoT is now in action.

    Now 70% can wait for the MoT to gazette truth on a daily in order to be a good citizen. Even North Korea will admire this level of Truthfulness.

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  • this particular department:

    //This is already intimated in the Latin roots from which the word ‘fact’ derive ‘factum’ and ‘facere’ both of which mean ‘to fabricate’!! So facts are ‘fabrications’. The word fact is even etymologically linked to ‘fiction’; so fiction and ‘faction’.//

    aiyoh. everyone one has a different story to tell lar. just like two opposing legal professionals argue from different opposing sides lar in a court case just that the judge (the rules of the game) has the privilege to pick the winner (or loser) lar.

    the brain is a messy yet beautiful piece of organ able to conjure up all sorts of facts / fabrications / story telling lar. ask the white idiots, they are the best in this particular department.

    lately, we have one ang mo actively moving his arm to block a security guard (got video leh ? fact or fiction ?) and he said (someway of interpreting) that the security guard walked into his arm.

    caveat lar : opinion not fact lar.

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  • A rare truth:

    Many Singaporeans n foreigners in their countries were wondering why many defamation suits of pms n ministers brought to SIN Court by the alledged defamed has total success with one presided by a former Senior District Judge who not long after resigned n go into private practice. Real news said nothing. Fake news said obvious. Note Fake n Real definition depends on who is talking. What is most amazing is that the Singaporeans r not any wiser after the verdict as before for the Defamation alledged is understood to be based on speculation as info sought r viewed as kapo so rejected. Now with the legislation of Cabinet r Laws n r infallible n justice itself so there is no more than the “i m not as alledged” is sufficient while the defendent has to substantiate their case with gagged information so verdict is obvious. In this case lhy may be a little bit wrong in his compliancy ta,k. Perhaps he should reword that Cabinet is Laws so what its occupant said r law, infallible n jutice period. Bench has to follow laws so self explanatory n obvious meaning get pay no need to think do or decide. Cabinet is Laws, infallible n above Laws n that is SIN Justice. Other talks r fake n dealt with Cabinetly not by the Bench. No wonder they have to have an member of the Brit Penal Colony to supervise the academic law. No wonder Singaporean Constitution Law expert is superfluous in SIN but invite to show them so that they could overlord the world by being agreeable with their Constitution as taught by SIN Constitution Law Espert.
    Good Old Georgy, a sacrificial lamb of SIN now saved by his sinner Saviour n return to advise the new overlord of the shitiness of v4 Pimps And Prostitutes n the loud mouth Trump-Kim doggy in gorilla den.,

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  • Hum Liao Lah:

    why suffered in silence:
    Are the ministers qualified and capable of deciding impartially what constitues fake news? Shouldn’t that be the jurisdiction of the judges who are legal professionals?

    Right off the starting block there is straight-off a clear conflict of interest. Under the ownself clear ownself facade, statements convenient to them will be facts and that which are inconvenient will be falsehood.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Hum Liao Lah

    UK FINANCIAL TIMES TODAY PUBLISHED A SCATHING DERISION of LEE-jiapore anti-fake news legislation.

    Here is the weblink. You can still scroll down the page to read its content despite the cookie blocking wall.

    https://www.ft.com/content/b1d78fc2-57b4-11e9-a3db-1fe89bedc16e

    Hum Liao Lah: Right off the starting block there is straight-off a clear conflict of interest. Under the ownself clear ownself facade, statements convenient to them will be facts and that which are inconvenient will be falsehood.

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  • oxygen:

    CONTRARY TO FACILE CLAIM THAT IT IS A STEP FORWARD, it it 10 step backward of outcome consequences.

    When the dragnet of law ambit and its arbitrary divine-like interpretation of truth/falsity preserved for the annointed decision-makers is huge enough to trawl in whales (tech giants), it is opening the door to toxic pollution to business and finance.

    Just look at the conundrum of Hyflux now.

    oxygen: THERE IS NOW A LOT OF PUBLIC OUTCRY ON THE ACCOUNTING/AUDIT AND DISCLOSURE STATEMENTS PUT OUT BY HYFLUX which ACRA is said to be investigating.

    Hyflux has been cash flow negative for several years and its auditors not raising the red flags. THERE MAYBE OR MAYBE NOT COMPELLING OPERATIONAL CONSIDERATION THAT HYFLUX HAVE OR MAY NOT HAVE ADVANCED BEYOND THE “GOING CONCERN” SOLVENCY ISSUE which the directors and the auditors may or may not be aware of before grinding to an operational halt suddenly.

    It will become a very dangerous terrain to lists IPOs and existing listed entities to float rights or bond issue. Directors and corporates will become vulnerable to lawsuit for alleged ” misleading or inadequate disclosures” or even claims of fraud. Auditors and investment bankers drag into the mud as well. Investors clamoring for law protection will stretch the ambit of law interpretation of “FAKE NEWS” and Singapore drag into the mud in the global business and financial press.

    HOW CAN SINGAPORE COMPETE IN THE WORLD OF BUSINESS AND FINANCE ENTRAPPED WITH THIS DEGREE OF LUNATIC OBSESSION WITH KIASU UNDEFINABLE FAKE NEWS LEGISLATION THAT IS FAKE FROM ITS VERY CONSTRUCT AND BEGINNING?

    SI LEOW LAH!! 1 STEP FORWARD, 10 STEPS BACKWARD IDIOTIC STUPIDITY UNFATHOMABLE.

    NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD WILL DO THIS.

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  • oxygen:

    IN THE FINANCE WORLD, A LOT OF ANNOUNCEMENTS by listed entities are GENUINE NEWS but later “caught out” as online “fake news” releases after the fact.

    Anyone remember John Thain, ex-CEO of Merrill Lynch? He was sacked by Ken Lewis, CEO of BoFA post-merger but NOT sued by the US securities watchdog, for misleading disclosure of losses pre-merger.

    Why?

    Read on

    Time: But he infuriated Lewis by paying out a couple of billion bucks in bonuses before the deal had closed and before disclosing to Lewis that Merrill was going to produce $15 billion in losses for the quarter…….Lewis was reportedly apoplectic about the size of Merrill’s losses in the fourth quarter. But here’s a question: What were BofA’s risk managers doing? When BofA did its due diligence, it certainly went over Merrill’s trading book. If the losses were tied to positions that had already been taken, then shame on BofA. If Merrill’s traders made bad bets in the fourth quarter, it’s worth asking again, Where were BofA’s risk and compliance troops?

    http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1873835,00.html

    “Lewis himself faced criticism for rushing to buy Merrill for $28 billion after less than two days of due diligence……..On January 27, 2009, New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo issued a subpoena to Thain in a probe into the bonuses he received just days before the Bank of America takeover

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Thain

    DESPITE HIS HIGH PROFILE PUBLIC SACKING and controversy over Merrill Lynch losses always understating huge amount prior to the merger with BoFA in announcements to the stock exchange, JOHN THAIN WAS NEVER CONVICTED OF ANY CRIMINAL OFFENCE.

    NO OFFENCE WAS DISCLOSED IN THAT NY ATTORNEY GENERAL PROBE.

    Since announcement to shareholders via DIGITAL COMMUNICATION through the stock exchange release, an “INNOCENT” John Thain would be criminally indicted for FAKE NEWS release WHICH WAS NEVER FAKE OR PROVEN TO BE FAKE SUBSEQUENTLY.

    In the real world of finance, a lot of evolving events will see FAKE NEWS legislation trapping innocent parties which in fact genuine of reality.

    DOES THE MINISTER ALLEGING FAKE NEWS PUBLISHING OR THE JUDGE GOT THE TIME AND RESOURCES TO DISCOVER WHAT IS FAKE AND WHAT IS THE EVOLVING UNDERLYING GENUINE REALITY before convicting the accused?

    FAKE NEWS LEGISLATION IS GOING TO BACKFIRE BADLY. SINGAPORE’S AS A BUSINESS AND FINANCIAL CENTRE WILL BE ERODED AND DESTROYED SILENTLY.

    PAPpypolitics are IDIOTS UNBELIEVABLE of self-inflicted damage causing.

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  • oxygen:

    ONE COULD SAFELY ALLEGE THAT JOHN THAIN in that ignominious (his sacking) episode failed on “misleading or deceptive conduct” of news/announcement public releases. I find this real life case history particularly INFORMATIVE AND EDUCATIONAL.

    Misleading and/or deceptive conduct is NOT that far off in comparison with the 2009 Lehman Bros Minibond MIS-SELING saga raging in Singapore and Hong Kong. At the outset, seller financial institutions REFUSED LIABILITY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT BOTH OF LAW COMMAND or of FINANCIAL RESTITUTIONS, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY. MAS kept silent. But the Hong Kong Central Bank went tough, forced all financial institutions selling the same products to HK investors to fully compensate. From that moment, Sinkieland selling financial institutions WILTED and comply to varying degrees.

    The law in offence of this mis-selling was the same in HK and LEE-jiapore, why the liability differs? I surmise, and i repeat, i surmise, NOT A FACT OF CLAIMS HERE, is that DIFFERENT LAW INTERPRETATIONS from the regulators prevail at the beginning.

    THAT, IF CORRECT, TEACHES ME THAT YOU CAN’T LEGISLATE FALSITY AND TRUTHFULNESS.

    IT IS A WHOLE COURSE OF CONDUCT, beyond a moment of misrepresentation (or otherwise) OR MISLEADING/DECEPTIVE CONDUCT of FEEDING gullible investors with FAKE NEWS in digital release or print media releases – THAT MATTERS.

    IT IS RIDICULOUS TO TAKE THIS ON-LINE FAKE NEWS TO CRIMINAL PROSECUTION WHEN WE- given the lessons of John Thain/Ken Lewis BOFA/Merrill Lynch ignominy – that DECEPTIVE/MISLEADING CONDUCT DOES NOT INVOLVED OR NEED NOT INVOLVED DISHONESTY.

    John Thain was NOT dishonest. He was trapped by unfolding events in the GFC beyond his control, not different from Ken Lewis who paid US$28 billion not doing his homework for a DUD investment bank.

    SO HOW COULD A LAW BE PASSED IN PARLIAMENT PUNISHING HONEST PEOPLE FOR CRIMINAL CONDUCT IS BEYOND ME??

    Hands up, who wants to be a director or a statutory corporate law officer of a listed entity? Who wants to sell investment products as an investment banker? Who dares – LIKE THE BRAVE HYFLUX – sell perpetual bonds to greedy naive investors looking at high yields of 6% return when Govt. bonds paying around 2% yield and global bond yields have been on a fallen trajectory since 1980s?

    THE WORLD OF CORPORATE FINANCE, INVESTMENT AND SINGAPORE AS A GLOBAL TRADE, BUSINESS AND FINANCIAL CENTRE IS UPSIDE DOWN?

    Presently HKSE has a lot of mining companies, it will never come to Singapore – land governed by stupid leadership, if they are not already blind of (genuine) reality but blind by kiasu “fake news” legislative insanity.

    I GIVE UP, HAVE YOU?

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  • oxygen:

    PAPpypolitics CLAIMS THAT THE POLICE WILL look at objective facts, circumstances and context BEFORE they prosecute or they might consult the AG prior.

    IF THE ENTIRE WISDOM MIND IN THE US SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION (in deciding NOT to prosecute Anglo-Dutch Shell “IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST”as I illuminate above) because of impossibility complexities of distinguishing truthfulness and falsity in its published reserve accounting, HOW WOULD THE POLICE EVEN COMPREHEND THE SUBJECT-MATTER (whatever that may be) on hand?

    Maybe the Police brief to the AG is its confused puddle of diarrhoea which confused the AG even further.

    This is a LAW MATTER which requires intense judicial scrutiny, THE POLICE IS NOT GOD OF LAW COMPREHENSION OR WISDOM TO PLAY GOD’s DIVINE DETERMINATTION.

    In any case, the police don’t have the time to keep even rising street crime violence, you think they seriously invest time to listen to the explanation of objective facts, circumstances and context of each alleged “fake news” publishing?

    AS IF THE AGGRAVATE THE INIQUITIES FURTHER TO ERODE PUBLIC TRUST AND RESPECT FOR THE LEGALITY OF THIS ANTI-FAKE NEWS LEGISLATION -Clause 61 of POFMA IS ITSELF CORRUPTION OF THE SAID LAW.

    WHY?

    Because it provides ministers the power to grant exemptions from the bill:

    General exemption

    61.

    The Minister may, by order in the Gazette, may exempt any person or class of persons from any provision in this Act.

    IN OTHER WORDS, ONLY PAPpys Ah Kong and its cronies may publish and disseminate FAKES NEWS WITH THE BLESSING IMMUNITY of the power that is.

    IT IS ILLEGAL – AGAIN BRIGINSHAW LAW ABUSE VIOLATION OF WAVERING FINGER – YOU ARE A SINNER IN CRIME BECAUSE YOU DON’T BELONG TO THE RIGHT PEDIGREE.

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  • oxygen:

    THE PUBLIC DISCOURSE AND PAPpy Ministerial public clarifications/elaborations now seems ghosts walking on the water of impossibility of believability

    - the police is the cop, the judge and the jury

    - the AG, on the advice of the police, either reliable or dubious otherwise, prosecute as the judge and jury of truth/falsity

    - the minister alleged fake news is also the judge and jury

    THEY ALL MUST EXCLUSIVELY HAVE PERFECT INFORMATION AND WISDOM, but no other.

    The accused is guilty until proven otherwise, how is the judge going to be convinced in a hearing if IN FACT THE ACCUSED IS FAR MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE OF TECHNICALLY COMPLEX SUBJECT-MATTER THAN THE POLICE, AG AND THE MINISTER COMBINED AND WHICH EVEN THE SITTING JUDGE IS CLUELESS – BE THAT GEOLOGY OR SOME ADVANCED CORPORATE ACCOUNTING – EXAMPLE OIL AND GAS RESERVE ACCOUNTING which US SEC gave up prosecuting Shell?

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  • oxygen:

    INCREDULOUSLY, MINISTER SHANMUGAM CLAIMS THIS -

    Law Minister, Shanmugam : Truth is not malleable – either something is true or it is not true.

    Proposed law on falsehoods has ‘clear oversight mechanism’ to prevent abuse by Government, says Shanmugam

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/proposed-law-on-falsehoods-has-clear-oversight-mechanism-to-11438132

    I am CONFIDENT that Minister Shanmugam is a BRILLIANT LAWYER but… NOT A FINANCIAL ACCOUNTANT OR AN INVESTMENT BANKER OR A GEOLOGIST.

    Neither is or was he an economist. Did he ever sat in the boardroom of any major listed entity THE RISKS IMPLICATION OF THIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION?

    I don’t know.

    But academics are up in arms against the proposed fake news legislation. They want statutory quarantined of law exemption.

    Some scholars want academic protection reflected in fake news Bill

    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/some-scholars-want-academic-protection-reflected-in-fake-news-bill

    Why is the Govt. still refusing to budge? Academics are APOLITICAL.

    TO AVOID DOUBT, WHY DON’T THE GOVT SUPPLY UNLIMITED FUNDING TO THOSE ACCUSED OF FAKE NEWS PUBLISHING TO FIGHT IN THE COURTROOM?

    Maybe Mr. Shanmugam is NOT disingenuous of his assertion of truth/falsity inherent malleable nature, HE IS -in my best informed judgment – WRONG TO INFINITY, looking at the above illuminations in this TRE thread.

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