Will the last US MNC leaving China switch off the lights?

Further to Apple planning to leave China with help of Taiwanese Foxconn, big US MNCs such as HP, Dell, Microsoft and Amazon are looking to shift big amounts of their production out of China, says the Nikkei Asian Review. The potential exodus reveals how the US-China tech war is accelerating the already underway cost-push migration of capacity to SE Asia.

The plans vary for each company.

HP and Dell, which together command about 30% of the global personal computer market, are planning to shift up to 30% of their notebook production out of China. Microsoft, Google and Amazon are considering moving some of their game console and smart speaker manufacturing out of the country.

Others are evaluating options.

These plans have not changed since President Donald Trump signalled at the G20 meeting in Japan a possible softening of a ban on US businesses exporting technology to China. US policy is too uncertain, it says

But can US MNCs manage to move? Nikkei doesn’t bother to analyse. Watch this space for analysis.

 

Cynical Investor

Cynical Investor blogs at Thoughts of a Cynical Investor

 

 

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49 Responses to “Will the last US MNC leaving China switch off the lights?”

  • opposition dude:

    If the MNCs do move I guess the local chinese companies will fill the gap. Just like in the smartphone market the locals have Xiaomi and Huawei. If Dell and HP leave then Lenovo would fill the gap.

    I don’t know about other American products though.

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  • cry wolf:

    As usual those without talent but ekes out a living from being a pap IB writes without any brain, aka without talent and brainless pap IBs.

    Do not know intent of cry wolf. Scare 70% sheep? But this is the wrong forum. It is the place where the 30% brave gathers. Another sign of brainlessness, and perhaps, also of without talent.

    Well and good, since clown pap needs more of such cheapskate Polampars.

    After all, any US MNC leaving Singapore shall be sorely missed by 70% sheep, and thereafter by clown pap, and of course, by cheapskate pap IBs.

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  • patriot of TUMASIK:

    cry wolf:
    As usual those without talent but ekes out a living from being a pap IB writes without any brain, aka without talent and brainless pap IBs.

    Do not know intent of cry wolf. Scare 70% sheep? But this is the wrong forum. It is the place where the 30% brave gathers. Another sign of brainlessness, and perhaps, also of without talent.

    Well and good, since clown pap needs more of such cheapskate Polampars.

    After all, any US MNC leaving Singapore shall be sorely missed by 70% sheep, and thereafter by clown pap, and of course, by cheapskate pap IBs.

    Bro, you are talking about a PUNDIT wannabee who could NOT get anyone to his Blog…so CONtribute$$$ to TRE for Space leh!!!

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  • Cock Talker:

    Dumbo CI can fantasize and talking cock about world affairs just like believing more good years from Pappies.

    Winners will talk about how Sillypore can grap this pie from US and China from competition to grow employment for sinkies, to make this place great again.

    Only self entitled babies will parrot open news like prophecy, faking like a scholar to brag his intelligence.

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  • oxygen:

    FART OF FICTION, where to discover the manufacturing and organisational skills in SE Asian countries that matches the cultivated accumulated experience in China over decades?

    What about the ports and infrastructural facilities to accommodate the supply chain management and export marketing, the banking, and even language communication?

    WHAT IF THE SHIFTING DOES NOT WORK?

    DUMDFARKED WRITING OF TRASH JOURNALISTIC PRETENSIONS.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Opposition dude

    EXACTLY RIGHT,even the Japanese can’t duplicate the Chinese organisational and manufacturing skills – despite their massive use of labor cost cutting robotic technology in manufacturing processes in autos industry.

    YOU SIMPLY CAN’T DUPLICATE OR FIGHT SOMEONE’S SUCCESSFUL ACCUMULATED EXPERIENCE applying the same technology except when you apply leapfrogged technology that these backward Asean countries don’t have in the first place.

    OTHERWISE THEY WOULD HAVE DISPLACED CHINA LONG LONG AGO.

    opposition dude: If the MNCs do move I guess the local chinese companies will fill the gap. Just like in the smartphone market the locals have Xiaomi and Huawei. If Dell and HP leave then Lenovo would fill the gap.

    I don’t know about other American products though.

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  • What do i think ?:

    Well , companies can survived with or without you.

    Same thing , 30% not happy can migrate. Others will fill in.

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  • oxygen:

    @ What do I think?

    AND THE DAFT 70% WILL ALL BE BANKRUPTED by the next property crash of a BIGGER GFC than the one encountered in 2009.

    What do i think ?: Well , companies can survived with or without you.

    Same thing , 30% not happy can migrate. Others will fill in.

    Only virgin nubile 16 year old chicken will be bought by the 30% daft still has got some money to spend on entertainment.

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  • Dr. Tan has to win:

    Another, Trumpit idiot below

    What do i think ?:
    Well , companies can survived with or without you.

    Same thing , 30% not happy can migrate. Others will fill in.

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  • Dr M is also an indian:

    @ Oxygen

    Let the companies sort out their problems. Nothing to do with us.

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  • oxygen:

    IN REALITY IT IS NOT EASY TO RE-LOCATE MANUFACTURING ELSEWHERE, even Chinese entrepreneurs shifting parts of operations to Vietnam are re-shoring.

    Chinese manufacturers returning home from ‘inefficient’ Vietnam despite US trade war tariffs

    https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3018403/chinese-manufacturers-returning-home-inefficient-vietnam

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  • More Pain Needed:

    What do i think ?:
    Well , companies can survived with or without you.

    Same thing , 30% not happy can migrate. Others will fill in.

    For some, Pain is the best cure.

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    A Sensational piece of Fake & Fictional News by that PappyEconomist CI! Those true knowledgeable people could spot it right away as U.S. Centric propaganda spew & Trump’s fake bravado lies like “Make America Great Again”! Such Media Statements were made without understanding the grim realities of world economics (Globalization, Cost Structures) & the long timelines (Transition Phase) for the industrialization process.

    Those in the know, knows that 80%-90% of the World’s manufactured goods originate from North Asia primarily from China: the rest coming from South Korea, Japan & Taiwan (but all basic production leads back to China).

    America’s Industrial Belt (now Rust Belt) & Manufacturing Base had already been hollowed out 3-4 decades ago. Just look at Detroit is enough to confirm the degradation of Detroit’s U.S. Automobile leadership & the shift of Auto manufacturing complex to North Asia. Even their Industrial (Rust) Belts like US Steel Mills’ furnaces have gone stone cold from disuse being rendered price uncompetitive by non-unionized, efficient steel producing plants elsewhere.

    In electronics, the World’s most competitive & efficient Semiconductor foundries were mostly located in North Asia. All the electronic component & manufactured stuff were mainly located within North Asia factories with the majority based in China.

    China’s politburo leadership had focused on educating their population on a broad base basis (accessibility, in large numbers, scholarships to intelligent ones, etc) & concentrated on STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) to provide the basis for their next leap forward from Conventional Manufacturing methods into Technologically sophisti

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  • What do i think ?:

    Beside masochistic,

    Yes pain is not exactly a bad thing.

    Pain signal one is not feeling well, sick.

    Pain signal injuries, sufferings.

    As the old saying no pain no gain.

    Without pain, how many turn over a new leaf. Kick a bad habit.

    Even soros say something e.g. If investing is entertaining, if you’re having fun, you’re probably not making any money. Good investing is boring.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Dr M is also an indian:

    IT IS A DEBATING FLOOR, dung must be debunked so that the audience is not brainwashed with nonsense.

    Dr M is also an indian: @ Oxygen

    Let the companies sort out their problems. Nothing to do with us.

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  • Oxy misses:

    Maybe you are right.

    But Amos the kiddo fiddo flee to wrong country. Should go China instead.

    成年男子与未满14岁女孩发生性关系 警方不立案遭质疑
    http://jiangsu.sina.cn/news/2019-07-19/detail-ihytcerm4684254.d.html?from=wap

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    - Cont’d -
    China’s politburo leadership had focused on educating their population on a broad base basis (accessibility, in large numbers, scholarships given to intelligent ones, etc) & concentrated on STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) to provide the basis for their next leap forward from Conventional Manufacturing methods (Labour intensive tasks, manual assembly line production) into Technologically sophisticated manufacturing models using robotics, automation & Smart Technology to increase both the productivity output & raising the value-added component for labour (ie. achieving more with less). And China’s strategy of maintaining a firm foothold was through price leadership & deflation (price cuts on products price list, currency manipulation) – no other economy can match nor withstand these type of trade terms.

    Look at how China grew their presence in the cheaper end of the Smartphone universe; Huawei, Oppo, Xiaomi, Vivo, ZTP, OnePlus Et al, at the expense of Samsung & eating alive the most expensive mobile smartphone player, Apple. Huawei P30 Pro & Oppo Reno 5G are technologically as good as top Samsung models but cheaper. Apple products IMO are technologically (inferior) behind the Smartphone technology curve banking on a cult-like buying audience & snob appeal from those Kardashian-wannabes showing off their spending power – what complete idiots! China-brand Smartphones now offers the best features yet at the most competitive price.

    This is the current Uncompetitive state of the U.S. where the U.S. Economy can’t even realistically compete on an even footing on Manufacturing against North Asian, let alone against China’s Manufacturing might.

    Apple, HP, Dell, Microsoft and Amazon were just making political moves & making rhetoric “noises” about U.S. reshoring to placate Trump & negotiate to reduce trade tariffs (playing for time until Trump leaves office). Those big US MNCs virtually sell their products manufactured out of China globally &/or are dependent on selling into China.

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    @ What do I think ?:
    Your type of thinking is very dangerous not only to others but also to yourself!
    No company exists without giving something back to their customers & to their business eco-system. If companies behave like what you say, very soon they will lose business & customers. Like GLCs who behave badly against their customer base re: overcharging or selling inferior products, misrepresentation, etc. Customers will take their business elsewhere, then can a company survive [with or without you]? Ha-ha-ha-ha!
    Likewise with emigration, those who leave take their educational qualification (usually higher than average due to host country academic requirements); their skillsets; their capital, savings; & their children to benefit their host country. Whereas, the country who loses those emigrants can only find lesser calibre replacement from 3rd world countries. If calculated on a net-net basis, the country losing the emigrants loses more because the knowledge, skillsets (current), capital, savings (past to current) & children (future) are all lost forever! Your type of thinking is so PAPpy-ish & their “Centre of The Universe” kind!

    What do i think ?:
    Well , companies can survived with or without you.

    Same thing , 30% not happy can migrate. Others will fill in.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Oxy misses

    AIYAH, THIS THREAD IS ABOUT ECONOMICS, not about AY and his exotic preference to play with little kids,lah!!

    In China, many strange things happened – the forest is big, the bird varieties are numerous.

    Oxy misses: Maybe you are right.

    But Amos the kiddo fiddo flee to wrong country. Should go China instead.

    成年男子与未满14岁女孩发生性关系 警方不立案遭质疑
    http://jiangsu.sina.cn/news/2019-07-19/detail-ihytcerm4684254.d.html?from=wap

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  • TruBlu:

    All mere excuses as CHINESE *PEASANTS* ARE NO MORE AS CHEAP AS 20-30 YEARS AGO?

    MNCs are greedy.
    Corporate Greed is, to my simple mind, the major cause to economic gloom over last 20 years.

    Corporate Greed means RICH SHAREHOLDERS’ GREED,the two are one and the $AME,WHAT A $hame?!

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  • Haigen-Diaz:

    The column is based on distorted calculation of trade between China and USA. A major distortion is the American companies like GM, Ford, Apple, GE, HP, Dell, Microsoft and Amazon, etc, are manufacturing and selling their products China to a 1.43 billion market base. If they manufactured in USA and sold to China, these would have counted as exports and the balance would have been near balance. Conversely Chinese companies manufacture there and export to US. Secondly, many American companies manufacture components and intermediate parts overseas and import for final assembly. I have been involved in many financial analyses of comparative manufacturing cost and US cost invariably turn out higher than East Asian countries. CEOs have moved mfg. there and import. Even if manufacturing is moved from China to Taiwan, Vietnam, Indonesia or Thailand, it will not help US balance of trade.

    What is changing is that China’s economy is growing considerably faster. And they make aggressive efforts in Africa and the rest of the undeveloped world to secure rare and valuable resources. China now has more supercomputing power (Dongarra’s TOP500 list) than anyone else. With the first exscale computers coming out, China will probably host more than half of the world’s supercomputers, which cost only about 1/3rd that in the West in either building or operations. With that, the plans are to bring in R&D brain power from all around the globe. China offers access to reasonably priced pFlops, eager to execute STEM talent, and top of the world commercialization ability (Shenzhen). West Lake University is just the first of many.

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  • Haigen-Diaz:

    Cont’d…

    China held its exchange rate at near 8.6 : 1 during Bush when the dollar was falling around the world. They put most of their international competition out of business and became the manufacturing floor of the world. After that, they let the Yuan appreciate and made even more money on their exports. One thing has not changed in 50 years. The US buys 5 times the product from China that China buys from US. China’s killer advantage is that their labor costs are significantly lower than US.

    Trade should be the purview of the U.S. Congress, not the President, and that may have been the intention of the Constitution. Congressmen know what works best in their districts and there should be reasoned debate before entering into agreements – between a variety of interests. The office of President has too much power. When that power is coupled with self-interest and over-the-top lobbying, local economies suffer and only the very wealthy global interests are enriched. It would also be “foolhardy” to believe anything Trump says. If trump has his way, I’m sure any trade deal with China will be every bit as successful as was the trump negotiated end to North Korea’s nuclear threat!

    The real risk of Trump’s failed tariff war is that it will escalate into a military confrontation in the South China Sea where both U.S. and Chinese patrols are already facing off. It’s time to reset U.S. policy with China not just in trade, but in foreign relations.

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  • Fake News !!:

    Li & Fung has a unique, ground-level perspective of the seismic shifts taking place around the world due to the trade war….growing signs that the global supply chain, long reliant on China as the factory to the world, is being permanently transformed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-09/trade-war-threatens-chinese-factories-existence-li-fung-says

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  • oxygen:

    @ Haigen-Diaz

    POWERFUL SPARKING INSIGHTS FROM YOUR DEPTH OF YOUR EXPERIENCE – economic dumbass Trump surrounds himself with irrelevant ideologues the likes of Navarro, Bolton, Lightizer, Bannon out of touch with real world economics and realities.

    Haigen-Diaz: The column is based on distorted calculation of trade between China and USA. A major distortion is the American companies like GM, Ford, Apple, GE, HP, Dell, Microsoft and Amazon, etc, are manufacturing and selling their products China to a 1.43 billion market base. If they manufactured in USA and sold to China, these would have counted as exports and the balance would have been near balance. Conversely Chinese companies manufacture there and export to US. Secondly, many American companies manufacture components and intermediate parts overseas and import for final assembly. I have been involved in many financial analyses of comparative manufacturing cost and US cost invariably turn out higher than East Asian countries. CEOs have moved mfg. there and import. Even if manufacturing is moved from China to Taiwan, Vietnam, Indonesia or Thailand, it will not help US balance of trade.

    Like you explained here – trade imbalance is as much of reality as it is semantic on the other side of the same coin.

    Remember the US auto industry. Japanese “exports” nearly crushed Chrysler needing Congressional bailout and Ford precarious. The Japanese autos did a sommersault AND INVEST IN US MANUFACTURING PLANTS – THIS TIME SAVING THE US TRADE IMBALANCE AND COMPETING FROM INSIDE US saving on tariff and transportation costs and advantaging from newer technology (US autos trapped in embedded out-dated technology in contrast).

    After the GFC, Chrysler had to be bailed out with Federal funding. It “married” Fiat, the first suitor comes along, knowing it is ALL RAPES THEREAFTER.

    ,

    FORBES :The alignment between Fiat of Italy and Chrysler does not exactly save Chrysler, but it gives Fiat an entry into the U.S. In short, Fiat is to get 35% of Chrysler, will not pay any cash for the stake, and it will give Chrysler access to its technology.

    https://www.forbes.com/2009/01/20/chrysler-fiat-merger-biz-manufacturing-cz_jf_0121flint.html#6a46a6a6ab27

    WHERE WAS LIGHTHIZER, BOLTON, NAVARRO AND BANNON THEN?

    IF CHINESE BUSINESSES INVESTS INSIDE USA, then sells its products in USA and the rest of the world, if feasible, WHERE IS THE US-CHINA TRADE IMBALANCE???

    Ghosts haunt the minds of irrelevant ideologues!!!

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  • oxygen:

    @ Haigen-Diaz

    WILL TRUMP PERMITS CHINESE INVESTMENT in US? Or ban Chinese business from free market competitive access like Huawei?

    IF TRUMPS ALLOW CHINESE INVESTMENTS IN US UNIMPEDED, we are all going to see the label “Made in USA” is DE FACTO “MADE IN CHINA.”

    Trump is probably the MOST STUPID AMERICAN PRESIDENT in US history.

    Former US Budget Director – David Stockman – told Wall Street this – Ronald Reagan was so numerically ILLITERATE that he can’t manually adds up two sets of number.

    Trumponomics, it seems, DOES NOT KNOW WHICH ONE IS HIS MOUTH AND WHICH ONE IS HIS A*SE in economics.

    HIS STUPIDITY IS FARKING UP THE WHOLE WORLD.

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  • What do i think ?:

    Where got lose customers ?
    Look at china batj ?

    They just want cheap. Imitation also dont care. Just look pinoys selling imitation brand bags in or nearby lucky plaza. Of course they got arrested. But tip of ice berg.

    Then we also have illegal imported cigarettes.

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    Bro! The Continental Americas (from North, Central to South America) were either: (1) weren’t as well endowed with Natural resources & Mineral wealth; they were depleted [the US] or (2) were unable to extract, exploit such resources due to their unstable political situation causing roadblocks for foreign investments [Latin America]; their Green movement stopping further exploitation or incurring expensive land rehabilitation [North America].
    In addition, the geography of the Continental Americas were distinctly isolated away from the Asian & European land mass separated by Atlantic & Pacific Oceans. Even Continental Africa were located closer to Southern Europe & the Middle-East.
    Asia were especially well endowed with both Natural resources & Mineral wealth eg. South East Asia & Australia. And WW2 saw the invasion by Japan’s Imperial Army into SEA seeking those resources to fuel their war machinery; prolonged their war effort.
    In reality, US cost were way higher than other Economies cost structure (Asia, Europe) because of the sheer distance from markets & the isolation of their geographical location.
    The only way out for the US to overcome this natural disadvantage was to trade with the rest of the world; using together the US$ reserve currency status [victory spoils from WW2, Bretton Woods, Marshall Plan post war reconstruction, etc] & Petrodollar arrangements [Nixon's US$ shift away from Gold convertibility to Energy pricing].
    But the grim reality for the US to continue sustaining their artificially high standard of living was to create a high demand for US$ (excess US$ hoarding by export-oriented economies, use as store of capital, liquidity in the Global Financial Markets [EuroDollar, LIBOR, SIBOR, etc]. And the US began running a huge trade deficit absorbing imports to keep their lifestyle intact [like a YOLO couple maxing out their credit cards, roll over & applying for new cards].
    To offset their huge import spending, the US had to exploit through their comparative advantages in Large scale Agriculture (Grain production); in Aeronautics (Boeing); in Technology (Silicon Valley); in Defence Contracting; & in Financial Engineering (Wall Street).
    But the reality is that it is still not enough to bring down their trade deficit numbers. It is the US Deep State & Political complex structure that requires huge financial resources to maintain & sustain!

    Haigen-Diaz: I have been involved in many financial analyses of comparative manufacturing cost and US cost invariably turn out higher than East Asian countries.

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  • say migrate and must migrate:

    //Same thing , 30% not happy can migrate. Others will fill in//

    aiyoh. happy or not happy, white idiots already have 6.9m or 10m open-leg policy to fill in liao lar ?

    and why if 30% not happy, then must migrate leh ? why not 30% not happy and still stay and contribute to ‘constructive’ kpkb until people who buay tahan the ‘constructive’ kpkb contribution, then those people leave lar ?

    wow pian huey, say migrate and must migrate meh ?

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    @ Haigen-Diaz:
    In the early 1980s, China had already started sending their best minds into North American universities to assimilate into their educational facilities; tapped onto resources. After they return, started to utilise the best parts of the US/Canada higher tertiary systems especially the Technological bits & research mechanism onto their own local Tertiary Institutions. They didn’t just happen overnight! And they never looked back since!
    STEM education in China were started over 2 decades ago & inculcated into their next generation – creating today’s technopreneurs, engineers & computing talents. And why China banned Google, WhatsApp, FaceBook (+ other social media) – they opted to reinvent the wheel in order to learn from intricacies & came out with their own versions Baidu, WeChat, Weibo, etc. Of course, there is also the political issue!
    A friend once told me in early 2000s, the backward state of Chinese school system was evident when he visited a top Public School there. The state of their PC system for students were rudimentary & a bit laughable (no Internet!). What happened since then were unbelievable!
    When I visited Shenzhen in the 1990s, Shenzhen was then just an emerging backwater town which happened to be located next to HK’s New Territories. The feeling then between HK/Shenzhen was akin to S’pore/ Batam – like stepping out from a 1st world setting onto a 3rd world. But Shenzhen has since changed – becoming a “top of the world commercialization ability”. The surfeit of 3-D printers & the various new technology emerging from China boggles the mind. And H-P is still stuck on selling Inkjet printers profiting by selling their expensive ink refills.
    When I see S’pore & the inbred stagnancy; the sorry state of affairs; the stupid educational system with focus on Meritocracy (nepotism?), Elitist schooling (3 schools [RI, Hwa Chong JC, ACJC] = two-thirds of medical school intake); the cheerleading attitude of PAP politicians oblivious to the looming Great recession. My Heart Bleeds!

    Haigen-Diaz:
    China now has more supercomputing power (Dongarra’s TOP500 list) than anyone else. With the first exscale computers coming out, China will probably host more than half of the world’s supercomputers, which cost only about 1/3rd that in the West in either building or operations. With that, the plans are to bring in R&D brain power from all around the globe. China offers access to reasonably priced pFlops, eager to execute STEM talent, and top of the world commercialization ability (Shenzhen). West Lake University is just the first of many.

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    @ What do I think ?:
    Knock off Chinese manufacturers are like guerilla fighters – they hit & then run for cover under darkness. But they aren’t legitimate companies but underground manufacturers, wholesale suppliers to the cash-&-carry traders. And what they’re doing are infringement on registered brandnames, trademarks & copyrights. It is an illegal activity subjected to civil suit, confiscation of goods & awarded damages!
    But this isn’t an Apples to Apples comparison here. You’re deviating from my point!
    “illegal imported cigarettes” are criminal activities, not a legitimate business! Again deviating!

    What do i think ?:
    Where got lose customers ?
    Look at china batj ?

    They just want cheap. Imitation also dont care. Just look pinoys selling imitation brand bags in or nearby lucky plaza. Of course they got arrested. But tip of ice berg.

    Then we also have illegal imported cigarettes.

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  • Bullocks Talking:

    Rabble-rouser</strong?:
    China’s politburo leadership had focused on educating their population on a broad base basis (accessibility, in large numbers, scholarships given to intelligent ones, etc) & concentrated on STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics

    But the moment any child whispered they want to study hard to be the next President, they and their family will be arrested immediately, sent for ‘re-education’ and all their relatives under 24/7 police ‘protection’ !

    This is also anotrher focus on their population on a broad base basis.

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  • @Bullocks Talking

    “But the moment any child whispered they want to study hard to be the next President, they and their family will be arrested immediately, sent for ‘re-education’ and all their relatives under 24/7 police ‘protection’! This is also anotrher focus on their population on a broad base basis”

    Just wondering, have you ever been to China and stayed some time to mingle with its people?

    Not 20 years ago, but now under Xi?

    .

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    @ TRE Techie:
    Probably @ Bullocks Talking doesn’t even possess a Passport (never been to China) but gets his news on China directly from Nation building & Constructive media ie. SPH’s printed news. Tries to parrot here in TRE eco-system where people are so much smarter & been to more places!

    TRE Techie:
    @Bullocks Talking

    “But the moment any child whispered they want to study hard to be the next President, they and their family will be arrested immediately, sent for ‘re-education’ and all their relatives under 24/7 police ‘protection’! This is also anotrher focus on their population on a broad base basis”

    Just wondering, have you ever been to China and stayed some time to mingle with its people?

    Not 20 years ago, but now under Xi?

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  • Haigen-Diaz:

    Rabble-rouser: Bro! The Continental Americas (from North, Central to South America) were either: (1) weren’t as well endowed with Natural resources & Mineral wealth; they were depleted [the US] or (2) were unable to extract, exploit such resources due to their unstable political situation causing roadblocks for foreign investments [Latin America]; their Green movement stopping further exploitation or incurring expensive land rehabilitation [North America].

    oxygen: WILL TRUMP PERMITS CHINESE INVESTMENT in US? Or ban Chinese business from free market competitive access like Huawei?
    IF TRUMPS ALLOW CHINESE INVESTMENTS IN US UNIMPEDED, we are all going to see the label “Made in USA” is DE FACTO “MADE IN CHINA.”

    @ Rabble-rouser
    @ oxygen

    The US is blessed by many things, but geology is not one of them. The geology behind, or is that below, eg: shale gas and oil is not unique to any country on the planet. Shale resources are throughout Europe, but also in Argentina, Australia, South Africa and of course, in massive quantities even larger than the US, in China. The great good luck of the United States is that they have been able to access this first. Unfortunately the export economy sector has little allegiance to the United States, as it profits globally.

    Let’s face facts; America’s economic policies are set by the economic elite to benefit the economic elite. The function for most Americans is to serve as compliant consumers. If the natural gas industry has its way, more than 20 percent of this country’s fuel would be sent overseas, where gas prices are higher. Instead of enjoying reliable, low-priced natural gas, they’ll create something more akin to the international market for crude oil. The Energy Department has said that could raise prices by up to 54 percent by 2020. The price spikes of a natural gas export market also showed that consumers and businesses would pay $9 billion to $20 billion more per year for energy if were to send natural gas abroad. That would have the effect of placing a $200 export tax on U.S. households every year. And manufacturers of fertilizers, steel, plastics, chemicals and other products that depend on natural gas would no longer have an incentive to keep jobs in this country.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/export-natural-gas-export-us-jobs...

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  • Haigen-Diaz:

    Cont’d…

    The more globalized capitalism becomes, the less the profits of US multinationals deliver benefits for American wage earners and their families. High profit rates go hand in hand with wage stagnation and net job formation insufficient to make a serious dent in unemployment or to raise US labour force participation rates. Globalization and the cheap labor and subsidies of China have thrown most modern nations’ export economies into the doldrums. A weak dollar and the rise of the cost of Chinese labor have more to do with the new competitiveness of American workers than anything else. The reason China, et al enjoy a “huge advantage” in manufacturing is that they don’t have all those pesky environmental and labor laws to deal with.

    U.S. exports are less than 13% of their GDP with imports exceeding exports by $800 billion. Not exactly a recipe for long-term economic growth. A perfect example is Apple, the ideas and engineering are US based, the manual labor is elsewhere. Apple managers and engineers are thriving, the number of US workers employed on the other hand is quite small compared to the value of the company.

    Further, China has already moved into heavy manufacturing (eg. large construction equipment, ships), often finding that their cheap labor doesn’t necessitate the use of robots. Still another reason they won’t be importing much from the U.S. – to have manufacturing close to customers. Finally, they’ll then use whatever economies of scale develop satisfying Asian needs to serve as a competitive advantage for exporting those additional products to the U.S. In a way, the US political polarization in terms of two economies, one of thriving innovative businesses which competes in the global economy and the other a stagnant traditional economy that provides the rest of what the country needs.

    A vibrant economy that only benefits a small percentage of US citizens is worse than useless,

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    @ Haigen-Diaz:
    When I compared this US gas export dilemma against the recent Hyflux financial meltdown which the management blamed on low gas prices (export pricing), I see a lot of contradictions emerging between a Natural gas endowed economy like the US looking to export gas vs a gas processing Economy (S’pore) who lacks the natural resources (Natural Gas) but processes Natural gas at global export pricing which part of the processing is channelled for local electricity generation.
    1. If export gas prices fetch higher than domestic prices in the US, why is it then Hyflux blamed “low gas prices” which would be denominated under global export gas pricing for their cashflow problems with TuasSpring CoGen plant?
    2. S’pore consumers are already paying one of the highest electricity rates in the world while still looking at further electricity rate rises in the future. And as beneficiaries of global export pricing mechanism where jobs & economic opportunities were supposed to accrue to the importing economies (like S’pore). Yet the Narratives coming out of the S’pore electricity players & the EMA allude to “Low Gas Pricing” as the problem affecting their cash flow, profitability hence higher electricity prices?
    3. The conundrum in Gas Export pricing where it is termed “high” for the US (vs domestic pricing) whereas in S’pore, it is termed “low” which is then used as justification for high electricity rates.

    Don’t you find it amusing? Neoliberialism has become the smokescreen where the elites uses it to confuse the Masses.
    - Cont’d -

    Haigen-Diaz: Let’s face facts; America’s economic policies are set by the economic elite to benefit the economic elite. The function for most Americans is to serve as compliant consumers. If the natural gas industry has its way, more than 20 percent of this country’s fuel would be sent overseas, where gas prices are higher. Instead of enjoying reliable, low-priced natural gas, they’ll create something more akin to the international market for crude oil. The Energy Department has said that could raise prices by up to 54 percent by 2020. The price spikes of a natural gas export market also showed that consumers and businesses would pay $9 billion to $20 billion more per year for energy if were to send natural gas abroad. That would have the effect of placing a $200 export tax on U.S. households every year.

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    - Cont’d -
    In the US, the economic narrative there is to keep Natural Gas prices low to keep US jobs. While in S’pore, the narrative is that Export Gas prices were too low hence causing Hyflux’s problems & justification for continually raising electricity rates (itself a contradiction when low export prices should be passed on to consumers as lower electricity rates, not higher). Likewise, petrol prices in S’pore were still based on pump prices existing pre-2014 oil price crash with little variation since despite the lower oil prices after 2014. In M’sia, the same price but in RM. But RM is 3:1 to SG$ which means petrol is one-third cheaper across the causeway!
    Similar argument can be made for Public Transportation fares.

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  • Bullocks Talking:

    TRE Techie:

    Not 20 years ago, but now under Xi?

    Winnie the Pooh is reportedly being banished from Shanghai Disneyland at the command of Chinese President Xi Jinping.

    According to Theme Park University, all mention of the character is set to be eliminated in a costly move that will see two attractions given brand new themes – all because the Chinese nation continually compares Xi to the fictional Disney bear.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/winnie-the-pooh-disneyland-china-ban-xi-jinping-meme-shanghai-president-a8660461.html

    The fictional bear is reportedly seen as a ‘symbol of resistance’ against the country’s leader

    Even a children story and toy is causing fear, still want a little child to say they aspiring to be the next president?

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  • Bullocks Talking:

    At least they are free to leave.

    Haigen-Diaz:
    most Americans is to serve as compliant consumers

    Mounting evidence suggests a system of forced labour is emerging in Xinjiang.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/uyghur-forced-labour-xinjiang-china/11298750

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    @ Haigen-Diaz:
    Apple is a market aberration which confounds the rationale being but exist in the real world for some unfathomable reasons.
    In the Smartphone universe, the Apple iPhone is an overpriced commodity & somewhat behind the technology curve. Bluntly speaking, they have become a Technological Follower (Me, too) unlike the earlier editions of iPhones (probably 1-4) which were then ground breaking products. These days, the ground breaking for Smartphone technologies are being done somewhere in China (5G) or in South Korea.
    Truth be told, Apple products were already showing signs of complacency & a lack of innovations (Post-Steven Jobs) to keep abreast of their Android competitors from North Asia. It was Steve Job aura that is keeping the iPhone afloat (Cult following) & the perverse pricing mechanism ie. High pricing (Kardashian type wannabe of Instagram influencers, etc). Other than that, they’re so slow to adapt to competitor’s moves. The Phablet format which started with Samsung Note; the “Edge” glass format again by Samsung, etc. But Samsung also suffered from market missteps – Note 7 exploding battery & the more recent Fold edition.
    But the most eye-opening Development was the emerging strengths of the China-brands which took the low-to-mid end of the Smartphone universe. Outside of the US & Japan, China-brands are taking over the Global Smartphone universe for their competitive pricing & increasingly attractive specs.
    US products, on the other hand, were high on hype (marketing) but don’t deliver on the price-value quotient. Besides Apple, Tesla EV also comes to mind – overpriced, undercooked & under deliver. Donald Trump looks like to be going the same direction at the helm of the US economy!
    Apple’s concept of separation between product design, engineering (in the US) & actual manufacturing (done overseas) are fraying at the seams. For a matured product, the integration between design & engineering specs & actual production becomes closely meshed, intertwined to be effective. Apple, to me, is passe!

    Haigen-Diaz: A perfect example is Apple, the ideas and engineering are US based, the manual labor is elsewhere. Apple managers and engineers are thriving, the number of US workers employed on the other hand is quite small compared to the value of the company.

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  • Haigen-Diaz:

    So did Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib and Ayanna Pressley leave?

    Bullocks Talking:
    At least they are free to leave.

    Haigen-Diaz:
    most Americans is to serve as compliant consumers

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  • Bullocks Talking:

    Compare to “what China does to people who speak out against them”

    Haigen-Diaz:

    So did Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib and Ayanna Pressley leave?

    No, they were taking a walk in the park.

    “In just the past few years, the government has attempted to muzzle critics by making them disappear without a trace, ordering people to physically barge into their houses, or locking up those close to critics as a kind of blackmail.

    Even leaving China isn’t always enough. The state has continued to clamp down on dissent by harassing and threatening family members who remain in the country.”

    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-deals-with-dissent-threats-family-arrests-2018-8

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  • impose 3/4 ? tank rule:

    //In M’sia, the same price but in RM. But RM is 3:1 to SG$ which means petrol is one-third cheaper across the causeway!
    Similar argument can be made for Public Transportation fares.//

    hahaha.

    any good brain to enlighten, why would sinkie land impose 3/4 ? tank rule when daft sinkies who are driving could benefit from the subsidized pump of our northern neighbour ? in short, the more daft sinkies top up, the more subsidy daft sinkies are benefiting ? a net gain for daft sinkies ? of course, that means no rent-seeking opportunity from the white idiots and gang ?

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  • Haigen-Diaz:

    @ Bullocks Talking

    The topic is about economics in US; you’re talking about politics in China. Where is the connect?

    Bullocks Talking:
    Compare to “what China does to people who speak out against them”

    No, they were taking a walk in the park.

    “In just the past few years, the government has attempted to muzzle critics by making them disappear without a trace, ordering people to physically barge into their houses, or locking up those close to critics as a kind of blackmail.

    Even leaving China isn’t always enough. The state has continued to clamp down on dissent by harassing and threatening family members who remain in the country.”

    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-deals-with-dissent-threats-family-arrests-2018-8

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  • Rabble-rouser:

    @ Haigen-Diaz:
    Bro! PAP IB, lah! Ignore him.
    He’s paid to rebut you & I in this forum to bring us a few notches down by diverting irrelevant arguments about Winnie the Pooh & China’s authoritarian rule, yadah-yadah-yadah! How come never bring up POFMA?
    Now M’sia no more the whipping donkey to target with things like 3:1 Forex, yadah-yadah-yadah!
    Whipping the Donkey target now shifted to XJP & China’s harsh rule through broadcasting negative news (as response to our post). They’re just “projecting” negativity to divert attention away from real issues.

    Haigen-Diaz:
    @ Bullocks Talking

    The topic is about economics in US; you’re talking about politics in China. Where is the connect?

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  • Haigen-Diaz:

    @ Rabble-rouser

    Bro, Agree totally, but here’s a thought. I am not quite sure if @ Bullocks Talking is actually a human. Hahaha…..

    Rabble-rouser:
    @ Haigen-Diaz:
    Bro! PAP IB, lah! Ignore him.
    He’s paid to rebut you & I in this forum to bring us a few notches down by diverting irrelevant arguments about Winnie the Pooh & China’s authoritarian rule, yadah-yadah-yadah! How come never bring up POFMA?
    Now M’sia no more the whipping donkey to target with things like 3:1 Forex, yadah-yadah-yadah!
    Whipping the Donkey target now shifted to XJP & China’s harsh rule through broadcasting negative news (as response to our post). They’re just “projecting” negativity to divert attention away from real issues.

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  • Bollocks Talking:

    Why need POFMA? when We Have Been Harmonised: Life in China’s Surveillance State?

    Rabble-rouser:
    arguments about Winnie the Pooh & China’s authoritarian rule, yadah-yadah-yadah! How come never bring up POFMA?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jun/30/we-have-been-harmonised-life-china-surveillance-state-kai-strittmatter-review

    The first stage is to disconnect citizen/subjects from truth and reality. The prime objective at this stage is not so much to deceive as to intimidate potential critics or opponents, such as journalists (purveyors of “fake news”) and judges (“enemies of the people”).

    Having hijacked language and legitimised lies, the next stage is to sow confusion. “If everybody always lies to you,” Arendt once said, “the consequence is not that you believe the lies, but rather that nobody believes anything any longer.

    ”With such a people, she added, “you can then do what you please”.(why need PORMA?)

    Another requirement of totalitarians is the fostering of collective amnesia. The CCP seems to have been remarkably successful at this – which is why the recent anniversary of the Tiananmen massacre went entirely unmarked in China and why disasters that happened on the party’s watch are systematically erased from the public record.

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  • Bollocks Talking:

    @Haigen-Diaz:

    Will the last US MNC leaving China switch off the lights?

    These people certainly can

    So did Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib and Ayanna Pressley leave?

    These people can’t

    Even leaving China isn’t always enough. The state has continued to clamp down on dissent by harassing and threatening family members who remain in the country.”

    Even if

    most Americans is to serve as compliant consumers

    The are still better than

    Mounting evidence suggests a system of forced labour is emerging in Xinjiang.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/uyghur-forced-labour-xinjiang-china/11298750

    As for your question

    The topic is about economics in US; you’re talking about politics in China. Where is the connect?

    The answer could be find in

    Haigen-Diaz:
    It’s time to reset U.S. policy with China not just in trade, but in foreign relations.

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  • Haigen-Diaz:

    Haigen-Diaz: The real risk of Trump’s failed tariff war is that it will escalate into a military confrontation in the South China Sea where both U.S. and Chinese patrols are already facing off. It’s time to reset U.S. policy with China not just in trade, but in foreign relations.

    Bollocks Talking: The are still better than:
    Mounting evidence suggests a system of forced labour is emerging in Xinjiang.

    Bollocks Talking: The answer could be find in:
    Haigen-Diaz:
    It’s time to reset U.S. policy with China not just in trade, but in foreign relations.

    @ Bollocks Talking

    Based on the full context of my narratives:
    So ‘resetting’ the foreign relations in your vocab is for US to start military confrontation with Chinese patrols in the South China Sea to redress the so-called ‘deplorable human rights’ conditions in Xinjiang?

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