Say NO to CECA and 6.9 million population

I gave a speech at Hong Lim Park on 3 November 2019. Here is the text of my speech.

I watched the video of Ramesh Erramalli scolding, abusing and belittling the security officer in his condominium. I find Ramesh behaviour to be arrogant, abusive and deplorable. I saw a foreigner who came to Singapore to take a well paid job bullying a local who earns perhaps less than one tenth of his salary and has to put in 12 hours a day just to make a living.

The ministry of home affairs said that Ramesh is a Singapore citizen. It does not make any difference to me. I still see him as a foreigner, because he did not serve national service.

I cannot understand why he can take a high paying job in a bank when there are many well educated Singaporeans and have worked many years in the financial service industry. Why can’t this well paying job be filled by a Singaporean who has served national service?

I read that many other Singaporeans are upset with disgusted with Ramesh’s behaviour. They showed their anger using strong language to make personal attack and threat against Ramesh.

I also do not agree with this excessive hatred displayed by my fellow Singaporeans.

We must remember that our views, as expressed in the social media, are reported in the global media and are read by both locals and foreigners in Singapore and elsewhere.

We not want the foreigners to see Singaporeans as bigots, racists or aggressive people. We should preserve the reputation and good image of Singaporeans.

A friend approached me to sign a petition asking for Ramesh to be sacked from his job and expelled from Singapore.

I declined to sign it. I prefer to be forgiving and to wait for Ramesh to apologise.

Ramesh did apologise to the security officer. I believe his apology to be sincere and that he has learned his lesson.

However, I am still angry at this episode. I am angry not at Ramesh, but at the government, the PAP government.

I am angry at the PAP national service policy. It requires our local males to serve two years full time as conscripts. They join the workforce two years later than foreigners, like Ramesh, and have to compete with foreigners for the good jobs.

The national service policy also requires our local males to serve ten years as reservists and to be called up each year for reservists training. I understand that many employers prefer to employ foreigners, rather than local males, as the locals are called up regularly for reservist training causing disruption to their work schedules.

When national service started in the 1960s, I supported it fully. Many Singaporeans supported it. It was necessary to build up a credible defence force. Singapore was then a poor country. The local males have to put in a sacrifice for the country.

Fifty years have passed. Singapore is no longer a poor country. Singapore is no longer a weak country in military terms.
Why are we still imposing this heavy burden our local male citizens? We can’t we pay them adequately for the sacrifice that we expect from them. We do we still have to take so much of their time in full time and reservist training compared to many other countries? We need to review this national service policy.

I am also angry at our ministry of manpower. They allowed foreigners to come into Singapore on employment pass to take jobs that could be done by our locals. In some cases, the foreigners get the employment pass with fake degrees or with degrees from dubious universities.

Why can’t we impose a levy on these foreigners on employment pass similar to the levy that is paid for foreign workers at lower levels? Why should these foreigners get good paying jobs, at the expense of our locals, who have to serve national service?

Why can’t the ministry scrutinize the applications more carefully and disallow fake and dubious degrees?

I am told that some employers prefer foreigners for another reason. The foreigners have to pay a high commission, amounting to several months of salary to the employment agent to get them a job in Singapore. Some employment agents pass some of the fee as a kickback to the employer or the human resource manager. I do not have any evidence that this is indeed the practice, but I can guess that it is likely to be true.

I am also angry at CECA, the Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement signed between Singapore and India.
I believe that Ramesh came into Singapore under CECA. It is not only Ramesh. There are many more people like him, perhaps 50,000 or 100,000 or more.

These foreigners who come in freely under CECA take over jobs that could be filled by our locals. In some cases, the locals who already held the jobs were retrenched and their places were taken over by the foreigners under CECA.

When the company is a foreign owned company or when the human resource manager is a foreigner, there is a tendency for the employer or manager to take in workers from their home country, and in some cases from the own villages.

It is widely believed that CECA caused a lot of problems to Singaporeans in competing for good paying jobs in Singapore against the foreigners.

How does CECA benefit Singapore? What is the quid pro quo? So far, we have not seen any convincing evidence or report from the government.

CECA has been implemented for almost 15 years. Has it been a balanced agreement with balanced benefit to the people of both countries? If it is one sided, should CECA be reviewed or abandoned?

A month ago, someone spoke to me. He said that in many advanced countries, the people who drive taxis are the immigrants who cannot find any well paying permanent jobs to make a living. Why is it that in Singapore, it is the locals who have to be taxi drivers and private hire drivers, while the foreigners take over the good paying jobs? I was not able to give him a satisfactory answer.

I have met many people, especially the older ones. Like me, they have been proud of what Singapore has achieved in the past. They have supported the PAP and stood with the government to face the past challenges.

Many of them have felt that the current PAP government had betrayed the people. The government did not take care of the interest of the citizens and instead took care of the interest of foreigners.
General election is around the corner. It will be called in 3, 6 or 9 months time.

I call on voters to think not only of ourselves but of the future of our children and grand children.

We cannot allow the PAP to continue their current policies which have been bad for the people. We should be united and have the courage to vote for change.

We should vote for a party other than the PAP. If all thinking people vote for another party, other than the PAP, we will be able to vote into Parliament a larger number of opposition MPs.

I hope that we can vote in at least one third of opposition MPs.
I know that some angry voters prefer to see the downfall of the PAP. We have to be patient. It will have to take a few general elections, not one.

If the PAP loses a large number of seats, they will know that their days are numbered. They will have to change their policies to take better care of the interest of the people, and not the foreigners.

The theme for today’s rally is – No for CECA, No for Ramesh and No for 6.9 million population.

I call for your support to send a strong message to the PAP government. And that means vote against the PAP at the next general election.

 

Tan Kin Lian

 

 

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39 Responses to “Say NO to CECA and 6.9 million population”

  • Think and vote wisely:

    Now we know how PAP skew the stat to suit itself.
    Less than 30% of condo buyers are foreigners! Because the foreigners are converted to Singaporeans and buy properties.
    Unemployment for Singaporeans is only 3.2% because foreigners with jobs are converted to Singaporeans, and retrenched and underemployed Singaporeans are not included in the stats.
    The average and median pay of Singaporeans are over $5000 and $3900 a month because converted FTs like Ramesh earn over $15000 a month, and hourly rated contract worker, part time workers like cleaners are not included in the stats.
    How are retirees and working Singaporeans going to survive in their old age or when they get displaced by foreigners in the ever rising inflation. Our PM driven heritage hawker centre food prices have rocketed even before the upcoming GST increase.
    Sell our flat lease? Not when the mortgage is not fully paid for or its value will be zero upon lease expiry, even if PAP one day will allow you to sell back lease when you are forty year old.
    Dont ever trust PAP subsidies of your flats, this and that.
    PAP Ministers, MPs and cronies are happily making tons of money at the expense of ordinary Singaporeans.

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  • NotMyProblem:

    “No for CECA, No for Ramesh and No for 6.9 million population”.

    For this to happen, we definitely need to vote out the PAP.

    CECA and many FTAs were bad agreements, signed by idiotic Ministers supported by 70% idiotic voters.

    Ramesh might had apologised, but not to be forgotten. His type of behaviour was not the first and definitely not the last. It is in the DNA of foreigners coming into Singapore thinking Singaporeans are stupid, thinking Singapore needs them.

    Our number one objective is to vote out the PAP totally. Not that we are impatient, too many foreigners are converted to citizen every years. Very soon true blue NS-liable Singaporeans would be the minority in own country.

    Put in more than one third of Opposition in parliament is only a consolation.

    One thing I wish is, more younger people attend the Hong Lim Park protest. In Hong Kong, it is the young people/students who are the drivers of protest to fight for their future. Where are our youth? Are they depending on the older generation to fight for them?

    It is not the older generation’s fight. The older generation have had enjoyed the good time provided by the previous government. The current PAP government is now screwing up the future for the younger generation. Jobs taken and given to foreigners, universities’ places were given to foreigners. Singapore youths were told “no need for a degree”. Even when you have the best reputable degree, you have to work for foreigners with fake degree from fake universities.

    Older generation had voted for the older PAP before, but not now. My advice to the younger generation, be smart and vote wisely. Hong Kong’s youths fight for their cause facing rubber bullet, pepper spray, jail and police brutality. Singaporeans only need to put a cross on the right box on a piece of paper. Nothing to be afraid of.

    Do the right thing, save this country you love.

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  • Well done, Mr Tan KL:

    The only way to void the ceca harm is to vote into power New Government.

    With New Government, ceca agreement harming Singaporeans can be ignored.

    Truly, wonder if the pap stupids who signed ceca ever walked one yard in ah neh mumbai ah neh new delhi or any ah neh land to notice how ffffingly backward and rude the ah neh folks are.

    Even if they are blind, they could have noticed the incessant horning of vehicles on the ah neh roads, a very good sign of bad manners and sikit atas mentality which is truly a distinguishing mark of ah neh.

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  • PAP signed CECA:

    The “aristocrats” and their cronies are a detriment to the country and people! Local citizens who make up the 70% must be helped to see the threat facing our democracy, social cohesion, security, peaceful existence and national identity. It’s the “mother of all betrayals” to let foreigners flood the country, hurt and disrupt the livelihood of our local citizens.

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  • Longan walk like Kuniang:

    Tan K L

    You make a small mistake.

    You are saying we should be more gracious to forgive Ramesh who came from India under the CECA scheme and became citizen earning high salary able to afford expensive condo.

    You said that Singaporeans also may be as ugly and bully security guards.

    You said, so we should forgive Ramesh.

    But you are wrong. Even if he were Singapore born and bully the security guard, I would want him sacked too. It’s NOTHINF TO DO WITH HE HAVING DONE NS or was born in India. It’s about the Bullying.

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  • becoming too greedy:

    https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2019/11/04/rcep-deal-delayed-india-wants-ceca-like-freer-movement-of-labor-with-member-countries/
    ………….

    see how alert other nations’ leaders are.
    only greedy sg gov keeps saturating our tiny country with these parasites!

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  • Jman:

    Mr Tan KL, together with such a proposal, it is important that you also suggest how you are going to keep the talented people in Singapore. Because if you do this, it is a certainty that we will bleed talent.

    We need to keep talent, so we do not end up bleeding for so many years until we are left with too many lethargic people saddled with a whole host of bad habits, as Msia has experienced over 30 years.

    You cannot just make a sweeping statement and cancel out CECA and cap the population growth. You should know better. You cannot choose the bits you like, and leave out the bits you don’t like. As with everything else in life, it all comes as a package.

    So what is your idea for this? I am all ears.

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  • More to a SG Passport:

    In general, a foreigner cannot be a true-blu citizen at heart because he has no historical or cultural roots in the country. His soul is where his birth place is, where his ancestry, extended family and familiar friends are. He may carry a SG passport, but there is a great chance that he has another passport tucked away somewhere else. When there is war, he is not expected to wear the uniform and defend the country. He can just return to where he came from, and come back when calm is restored. At heart, he is still a foreigner.

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  • Short sighted:

    The number of Singapore citizens is around 3.5 million.
    1 million are boomers, those born in 1946 to 1964.
    Those who are born in 1946 are already 73 years old, and majority of them have already retired.
    Our birth rate last year is 1.14.
    Today we are a major financial centre, air hub, having one of the busiest ports, and pharmaceutical, petrochemical and many many more economic pillars…These create different types of jobs & opportunities for Singaporeans.
    Imagine if today we are without the approximately 2 over million foreigners to help us. Many businesses won’t be here, many good jobs won’t be here, because there are not enough workers to support the industries.
    Even our status as a financial centre will disappear. And many opportunities will be lost.
    Worse still, with our birth rate of 1.14, it is a only a matter of time that we will be in serious decline and disappear.
    Who will suffer? The younger generation.

    Singapore is man-made.
    Jobs need to be created. Opportunities need to be created.
    They don’t come naturally.
    Only a irresponsible government will do nothing and let Singapore decline and let Singaporeans suffer.

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  • CECA Is A Fatal Mistake:

    In the early 80s, Singapore had many tall buildings, MRT and computers installed in most offices. I was then selling computer systems to these banks in Shenton Way area and dealing with mostly locals (eg MIS Manager, System Manager, System Analyst etc] and Europeans. There were no Indians in these banks except for those working in the Indian banks.

    You may wonder Why? India was never a Financial Centre of the world. The actual Financial talents are in New York, London, Tokyo ,Hong Kong and Singapore. Now if you visit these offices you will be surprised to see many Indians in the office because of our mistake in CECA. These Indians IT people were trained in their National Indian Institute of Technology which churned out mass software people like programmers. They are not that fantastic. I had worked with them before.

    The real IT talents come from USA, Europe especially Israel and now China who is leading in 5G and now going into 6G technology, Facial Recognition, Artificial Intelligence, Blockchain etc.

    Today India does not want to join RCEP Agreement because all the countries especially China do not believe in letting India IT people come to work in their countries.

    The only exception is our PAP Ministers who have been tricked especially when they allowed DBS Bank to open branches in India. It was reported that our DBS Bank in India had made a total loss of over S$110 millions of dollars for the past few years and until recently made a profit of S$2.5 million. And how many local PMETS have been retrenched to let these Indians in ?

    BIG DEAL. You can see how stupid our PAP SCHOLAR Paper Generals can be when they do not have the Business Warrior experience in the business world.

    Vote for them and all of us might as well commit suicide.

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  • Asd:

    Whole bunch of spineless as long as got $ they give up ethics

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  • Change We Must:

    TKL, we are very upset with the current jobs environment in Singapore. For those who are employed now, don’t be too happy till your job is replaced by foreign trash. Don’t think of yourself, think of your family, your extended family, your future generations. What would happen when foreigners invaded the whole of Singapore.
    I hope all employed Singaporean to support the unemployed cause and get the PAP out.

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  • Went to Japan:

    1. 10M is fixed.
    2. Third world foreigners will lead and be above locals.
    3. 70% voted for it.

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  • oxygen:

    @ CECA Is A Fatal Mistake:

    BRILLIANT POST of reality.

    CECA Is A Fatal Mistake: In the early 80s, Singapore had many tall buildings, MRT and computers installed in most offices. I was then selling computer systems to these banks in Shenton Way area and dealing with mostly locals (eg MIS Manager, System Manager, System Analyst etc] and Europeans. There were no Indians in these banks except for those working in the Indian banks.

    You may wonder Why? India was never a Financial Centre of the world. The actual Financial talents are in New York, London, Tokyo ,Hong Kong and Singapore. Now if you visit these offices you will be surprised to see many Indians in the office because of our mistake in CECA. These Indians IT people were trained in their National Indian Institute of Technology which churned out mass software people like programmers. They are not that fantastic. I had worked with them before.

    The real IT talents come from USA, Europe especially Israel and now China who is leading in 5G and now going into 6G technology, Facial Recognition, Artificial Intelligence, Blockchain etc.

    Today India does not want to join RCEP Agreement because all the countries especially China do not believe in letting India IT people come to work in their countries.

    The only exception is our PAP Ministers who have been tricked especially when they allowed DBS Bank to open branches in India. It was reported that our DBS Bank in India had made a total loss of over S$110 millions of dollars for the past few years and until recently made a profit of S$2.5 million. And how many local PMETS have been retrenched to let these Indians in ?

    BIG DEAL. You can see how stupid our PAP SCHOLAR Paper Generals can be when they do not have the Business Warrior experience in the business world.

    Vote for them and all of us might as well commit suicide.

    You have done a great demolition work on this facile fart.

    Short sighted: Singapore is man-made.
    Jobs need to be created. Opportunities need to be created.
    They don’t come naturally.
    Only a irresponsible government will do nothing and let Singapore decline and let Singaporeans suffer.

    INDIA IS NOT THE EPITAPH OF BANKING OR INDUSTRIAL PROWESS which Lee-jiapore can emulate or access to its NON-EXISTENT technology and skills.

    Minus US and China, no economic power from Japan or EU or OZ invest in that rubbish dump where almost the entire civilisation excrete on the street.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Jman

    THANK YOU FOR INVITING to the debating floor.

    Jman: So what is your idea for this? I am all ears.

    Please read the comments of @ Ceca is a Fatal Mistake, particularly

    CECA Is A Fatal Mistake: The real IT talents come from USA, Europe especially Israel and now China who is leading in 5G and now going into 6G technology, Facial Recognition, Artificial Intelligence, Blockchain etc.

    Today India does not want to join RCEP Agreement because all the countries especially China do not believe in letting India IT people come to work in their countries.

    and my rejoinder to @ Ceca is a Fatal Mistake.

    oxygen: INDIA IS NOT THE EPITAPH OF BANKING OR INDUSTRIAL PROWESS which Lee-jiapore can emulate or access to its NON-EXISTENT technology and skills.

    Minus US and China, no economic power from Japan or EU or OZ invest in that rubbish dump where almost the entire civilisation excrete on the street.

    Only the blind and ignorant PAPpypolitics/PAPpynomics can’t see this or obliviously unaware.

    Financial Times : :Since then, all three partners have struggled with geological complications, reducing gas output. The owners have also been beset by regulatory battles over the price at which gas from the field can be sold, and the rules governing future investment plans

    Canada’s Niko Resources to sell India deep sea gas stake

    https://www.ft.com/content/7454cf0a-b59e-11e4-b58d-00144feab7de

    AFTER FOREIGN OIL/GAS entities like Niko Resources spent $$$$ million on highly risky exploration (1 in 100 discovery chance), India robbed them of their fair reward – SELL YOUR GAS PRODUCTION AT MY ORDERED PRICE OR WE SHUT YOU DOWN.
    The Toronto-based explorer (Niko Resources) attempts to reverse disappointing discoveries that have seen it lose 85 per cent of its market capitalisation over 2015.

    I believe Niko Resources has gone bankrupt. And it is not the only victim.

    Another foreign oil entity, forgot their name, discovered big on-shore oil field. India TAXED THEM ON SALE PRICE, NOT ON PROFIT, they too closed shop.

    Now no foreign oil/gas will explore for energy in India.

    MATE, WAKE UP TO REALITY – CECA IS A BIG FATAL MISTAKE. INDIA IS A SNAKE OF SOVEREIGN RISKS.

    I been “investing” for over 40 years.

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  • CECA is robbery:

    Who on earth would agree to CECA. Singapore gov has not even evaluated the productivity, quality and innovativeness of India workers. Now you help India solve part of her unemployment problem, you have created productivity and quality issues at least in some sectors, and gradually social issues. How short sighted especially GCT. History will remember CECA as one of darkest moments in Singapore.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Jman

    I INVESTED IN AN AUSTRALIAN DIAMOND EXPLORATION in India, and, in hindsight now, not ashamed to tell all, that it was my STUPID MISTAKE – I lost everything in there.

    I was confident of India as a “low sovereign risks” country after seeing Dairy Farm International (DFI) – a unit of HK Jardine Matheson Group listed on SGX – invested in supermarket business in that Indian sub-continent in the early 1990s. I made good money out of investing in DFI.

    COMPLACENCY KICKED ME IN THE FACE.

    BOY, I WAS FARKING WRONG. Looking back now, I do not see DFI owns any business in India – PRESUMABLY THEY SOLD OUT, GONE BUST THERE OR SHUT THE DAMNED THING DOWN. DFI succeeds whereever they set their footprint.

    India attracted my attention in diamond exploration because of its favorable geology for diamond discovery. For centuries, peasants have picked up diamonds stones – very rare thing.

    The diamond entity I invested in complained of corruption impossible to get permit for getting things moving. Money greased everywhere but no action, just empty promises. They gone busts, so is all my money invested in that highly speculative stock.

    Now in 2019, I learnt of this reality of what happened to Rio Tinto’s diamond exploration and production business. READ ON.

    Rio Tinto gifts India diamond mine to Madhya Pradesh government

    Read more at:
    //economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/57017409.cms?from=mdr&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

    AFTER SPENDING $90 MILLION.

    Never again, perhaps only in my next life, will I ever going to invest in any business with India exposure.

    US and China dare to invest in India because their businesses is backed by more powerful sovereign government. Canada, Australia, EU, Japan knows India s*ake sovereign risks IS SMART ENOUGH TO NOT ENTER THE COBRA-INFESTED BUSINESS PITS.

    AND YES, CECA IS A VERY BIG MISTAKE.

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  • also have its own equilibrium:

    //These create different types of jobs & opportunities for Singaporeans.
    Imagine if today we are without the approximately 2 over million foreigners to help us. Many businesses won’t be here, many good jobs won’t be here, because there are not enough workers to support the industries.//

    aiyoh. lesser people, the equilibrium between jobs (or industries) and human numbers will adjust by itself lar. if more people, it will also have its own equilibrium.

    the equilibrium problems with huge numbers comprising FTs lies in the high possibility (in fact, it is now happening lar) once the FTs reach a critical number and they will have enough influence (power) to displace (kick out) daft sinkies (tru-blue one) slowly and many adding themselves as sinkies (converts) and bringing in more of their kakis lar (nice strategy by the white monkey idiots to tell you that sinkies (which include new converts adding to the number significantly as far as FT-locals goes lar) ???? and mind you, the white monkey idiots have included locals (incl converts) + PRs in the same mix (as far as hiring ratio / quota goes) ?

    don’t forget, daft true-blue sinkies bought into the wayang koyok FTs policy by the white idiots and hold the good welcoming intention (when the FTs were manageable and quite comfortable) in the first decades ? but do the FTs + new converts including businesses now welcome true-blue sinkies into the work force as they are used to such white idiotic open-leg policy ????

    in short, daft true-blue sinkies should VT the white monkey idiots O lar ?

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  • Only One Important Rule:

    No to PAP.

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  • Cheap Fake Talents:

    Jman:
    Mr Tan KL, together with such a proposal, it is important that you also suggest how you are going to keep the talented people in Singapore. Because if you do this, it is a certainty that we will bleed talent.

    We need to keep talent, so we do not end up bleeding for so many years until we are left with too many lethargic people saddled with a whole host of bad habits, as Msia has experienced over 30 years.

    You cannot just make a sweeping statement and cancel out CECA and cap the population growth. You should know better. You cannot choose the bits you like, and leave out the bits you don’t like. As with everything else in life, it all comes as a package.

    So what is your idea for this? I am all ears.

    Learn to keep your own local real talents with roots and stakes in this country.
    No roots mean not talent.

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  • Boh Kia See:

    There is only one way to start resolving all our issues.

    That way is to VTO the PAP at the earliest opportunity. No need to say “No” to this and that and protest some more.

    The protest should be against the PAP and ensure that they leave the scene for good. That way, we can start to clear up the mess they leave behind.

    If you care about the next generation, then this is the only way.

    So join the opposition group to outlaw the PAP (but don’t join TKL).

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  • help the white monkey idiots:

    //We need to keep talent, so we do not end up bleeding for so many years until we are left with too many lethargic people saddled with a whole host of bad habits, as Msia has experienced over 30 years.//

    aiyoh. keeping talent ? you call 6.9m or 10m keeping talent ? who are you trying to kid lar ?

    alamak, it is a artually “population ponzi scheme” (don’t like to use this label as the whole thing sounds so “illegal” hor). a lot of the so-called FTs here are average people doing average jobs lar ?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2019/04/05/the-world-economy-is-a-pyramid-scheme-steven-chu-says/#243815c84f17

    don’t divert to MY (wrong example lar), they have AFFIRMATION policy for a PARTICULAR ethnic group even among their own citizens, which means people of with another ethnic group may be disadvantaged over many things in the govt / official sectors lar ?

    sinkie land is different lar, it is FULL BLAST OPEN-LEG POLICY (from 3m ? to 5.9m going to 6.9m or 10m lar ?) to the detriment to your own daft sinkie people lar ?

    lethargic your head lar ? even without FTs, you seriously think that daft sinkies do not need to work to makan meh ? PMETs retrenched and replaced and wanting to work but don’t have offers lar, not lethargic lar ? graduates want to work but cannot find work lar (not lethargic lar) ?

    aiyoh, don’t keep on trying to help the white monkey idiots (whose own value may be 151th standard lar) sell their propaganda lar ?

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  • HDB flats depreciate to ZERO:

    CECA is a compelling reason for REGIME CHANGE.

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  • if got good things:

    //Imagine if today we are without the approximately 2 over million foreigners to help us. Many businesses won’t be here, many good jobs won’t be here, because there are not enough workers to support the industries.//

    aiyoh. if got good things, who doesn’t want lar ?

    aiyoh. you don’t need many businesses and many good jobs if they are not going to benefit your own people lar ? you just need enough businesses and enough good jobs for your own people and not to people who have the intention (natural cultural affinity) to give opportunities to their own kakis instead of your own people lar OR give opportunities to replace you if possible lar ?

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  • Non sequitur @Jman gung-ho:

    [RE: Mr Tan KL, together with such a proposal, it is important that you also suggest how you are going to keep the talented people in Singapore. Because if you do this, it is a certainty that we will bleed talent.]

    It certainly does not follow from insisting on a review of CECA as well as disputing a 6.9 million population for this tiny island that talented people will necessarily dissipate from this country. As in all things civic there ought to be checks and balances on top of governmental transparency and accountability in public policy making. The bonafide PAP of old understood that to the utmost… not after the grand schism of the 80′s when it became LKY’s party almost by fiat: now the (educated) elites will unilaterally decree the fortunes of citizens.
    If it hasn’t occurred to them that there are many learned others outside of their chauvinistic oligarchy…

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  • Jman:

    @ Oxygen

    You can say what you like. I couldn’t care less.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Non sequitur @Jman gung-ho:

    BEAUTIFULLY SAID, no one ask the most obvious question on CPF which paid its members 2.5% to 3% per annum of arbitrary return.

    Non sequitur @Jman gung-ho: If it hasn’t occurred to them that there are many learned others outside of their chauvinistic oligarchy…

    CPFB DISCLOSED THAT 25% of its members who participated in the CPF self-investing scheme DID THE SAME OR ACHIEVE BETTER RETURN.

    CPFB IS AN INSTITUTIONAL TRUSTEE, yet can only pay such meagre return WHEN THEY ARE KNOWING THAT 25% OUTSIDE THIS INSTITUTION PERFORMS MUCH BETTER.

    THAT IS TO SAY, 25% of the members on random are better performer than itself (an institution richly endowed with market power and resources/expertise).

    In layman terms, the “chauvinistic oligarchy” is exactly that…chauvinistic oligarchy….incompetent monolith of poor performers pretending superiority (which is patently NOT THE CASE) ability.

    OUTSIDE THIS MOB, FAR BETTER TALENT, SKILLS AND COMPETENT performers exist of FAR FAR GREATER NUMBERS in existence in reality.

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  • Foreign MAma go home:

    Undians don’t quit India your motherland. Go back and contribute. Ask your govvt provide jobs for you in your own country. That’s their duty.

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  • Get lost IB!:

    Jman:
    @ Oxygen

    You can say what you like. I couldn’t care less.

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  • Short sighted:

    @also have it’s own equilibrium
    aiyoh. lesser people, the equilibrium between jobs (or industries) and human numbers will adjust by itself lar. if more people, it will also have its own equilibrium.//////////////////////////

    If you go to a small town in one of our neighbouring countries.And you go to the coffee shop and see for yourself.
    One full hour you can hardly see any customers.So you want to become rich is difficult.
    Here if you know how cook well and start a famous food stall ,you can be a millionaire .
    With the appropriate population . Economy able to grow , it create a lot of opportunities for Singaporeans.

    //////////////he equilibrium problems with huge numbers comprising FTs lies in the high possibility (in fact, it is now happening lar) once the FTs reach a critical number and they will have enough influence (power) to displace (kick out) daft sinkies (tru-blue one) slowly and many adding themselves as sinkies (converts) and bringing in more of their kakis lar (nice strategy by the white monkey idiots to tell you that sinkies (which include new converts adding to the number significantly as far as FT-locals goes lar) ???? and mind you, the white monkey idiots have included locals (incl converts) + PRs in the same mix (as far as hiring ratio / quota goes) ?
    don’t forget, daft true-blue sinkies bought into the wayang koyok FTs policy by the white idiots and hold the good welcoming intention (when the FTs were manageable and quite comfortable) in the first decades ? but do the FTs + new converts including businesses now welcome true-blue sinkies into the work force as they are used to such white idiotic open-leg policy ????
    in short, daft true-blue sinkies should VT the white monkey idiots O lar ?///////////////////////////////

    Your above are nonsense
    We have few hundred thousand of Malaysian here for decades.Many have become citizens here.
    Any problems?
    In the 80s we have Thais workers here.
    Any problems?
    You are hallucinating.

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  • Foreigner To Citizen To Voter:

    Foreigners converted to Singapore citizens become pro-PAP voters.

    Each year about 30,000 foreigners are converted to PAP voters. Therefore, in the last 20 years, about 600,000 foreigners have become PAP voters. This figure is a conservative estimate. It does not include the whole string of relatives (father, mother, father-in-law, mother-in-law, and children) who have also been sponsored by the New Singapore citizens or their spouses and brought in to later also become Singapore citizens.

    Therefore, the figure of 600,000 can further be multiplied by at least two times. This would bring forth 1,200,000 new PAP voters in 20 years.

    That would definitely be sufficient numbers to perpetuate the PAP rule, even if local-born Singaporeans starts to vote against the PAP en-bloc.

    Ponder over this carefully. For if you still continue to slumber, the foreign peril is going to overwhelm you in no time.

    In fact, time is running out soon. You only have another ten years. After that, the momentum will decimate the local-born Singaporeans to kingdom come – yes, the Lee Kingdom (exploiting the PAP as its vehicle to ride on and on).

    Until the 69.8 % frogs-in-the-boiling-water wise up, the end is coming near, very soon …..

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  • oxygen:

    @ Short-sighted

    MATE, YOU ARE CONGENITALLY BIND-SIDED, can’t see beyond your toes.

    Short sighted: Your above are nonsense
    We have few hundred thousand of Malaysian here for decades.Many have become citizens here.
    Any problems?
    In the 80s we have Thais workers here.
    Any problems?
    You are hallucinating.

    Just reading this TRE tells you India is a CONGENITALLY SICK sovereign risks place to do business or undertake investment risks unless and until backed by your own powerful sovereign govt WHICH LEE-jiapore is NOT and NEVER was.

    Here you go of documented history of my notations.

    EARLY 1990s, I scored big gains on DFI investing and dumped all my profits into OZ diamond explorer in India. My investment gains totally wiped out and discovered lately DFI no longer in India. Any co-incidence???

    1994, Singapore signed Suzhou Industrial Park, got thorough screwed up and substantially pulled out by 2000.

    June 2005, we signed CECA agreement.

    2011 – 2015, NIKO RESOURCES GOT SCREWED UP forced to sell its gas production at uneconomic price demanded by Indian govt after another UK oil/gas entity was arm-twisted out by tax on sales (not profit). That means if tax on sale is 20% and your pre-tax profit margin is also 20%, you invested $XXX billions for zero return. Foreign investors are taking all risks doing CHARITY WORK IN INDIA.

    2019 – RIO TINTO GAVE UP ITS DIAMOND MINE IN INDIA AFTER SPENT $90 MILLION,.

    THE ECONOMIC HISTORY LESSON I LEARNT:

    - India sovereign risks have a PERPETUAL HISTORY

    - IT CAN’T CHANGE AND NEVER WILL CHANGE, there is no such a thing as “no curruption” and/ or nothing is “immoral” about stealing your assets after it turns out good for foreigners.

    LEE-JIAPORE SIGNED CECA BLIND AND STUPID OF EXPERIENCE. That is why they got raped again. How many of our investment prosper in India since 2005?

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  • oxygen:

    @ short-sighted

    WITH THIS KIND OF HEADLINE READ in India’s top financial news publishing, which foreign business dare to invest in India WITHOUT BACKED BY THEIR OWN SOVEREIGN GOVERNMENT?

    Economic Times/India Times : Rio Tinto gifts India diamond mine to Madhya Pradesh government

    AFTER SPENT $90 MILLION, the world’s second largest mining business, did not, maybe could not even, sell it to outside investors or Indian business for just 1 rupees.

    IT IS TOTAL HUMILIATION OF HAVING BEEN FORCED TO GIVE AWAY assets belonging to the shareholders of Rio Tinto to a STATE GOVERNMENT, not even central govt.

    EVEN STATE GOVERNMENT IN INDIA CAN FORCE FOREIGN ENTERPRISE TO PROSTRATE AND KNEEL IN SUBMISSIONS TO DEMAND in this age of globalisation!

    Which is why I said earlier.

    oxygen: Never again, perhaps only in my next life, will I ever going to invest in any business with India exposure.

    US and China dare to invest in India because their businesses is backed by more powerful sovereign government. Canada, Australia, EU, Japan knows India s*ake sovereign risks IS SMART ENOUGH TO NOT ENTER THE COBRA-INFESTED BUSINESS PITS.

    AND YES, CECA IS A VERY BIG MISTAKE.

    I roamed in China for a few years, came out empty-handed, knows that it is not what it seems on the surface, INDIA IS A LOT LOT LOT OPENLY WORST.

    PAPpypolitics/PAPpynomics are virgins in foreign investing – THEY GOT SCREWED UP WHEREEVER THEY GO, outside LEE-jiapore.

    “Scholarly meritocrats” are USELESS in the real world outside.

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  • 6.9m (scientific one):

    //We have few hundred thousand of Malaysian here for decades.Many have become citizens here.
    Any problems?
    In the 80s we have Thais workers here.
    Any problems?
    You are hallucinating.//

    let me start with this common refrain – “Past performance is no guarantee of future results” ? in fact, don’t need to wait till future ? the present performance is so much worst than past performance lar ?

    aiyoh. in the 80s or even 90s, the number was still manageable lar ? now OPEN SEASON FOR OPEN-LEG POLICY LAR ? you swallow 1 panadol when you were a teenager, still ok lar ? try swallowing 1000 panadols at one go as an adult lor ?

    i remember when i was younger, 2 or 3 letters out for employment, at least 2 or or all 3 will come back with interview and 2 will be offering (you still can reject 1 2 offer) ? real case lar, no bs lar ?

    heard that now you will be lucky if you (assuming you are an average daft sinkie not the elitist connected or creamy type lar) can get one interview for sending tens of applications (if not hundreds hor) ?

    and don’t say malaysians are no problems if too many of them (critical breaching point) are here lar ? don’t like to mention as i have malaysian close friends or their parents hailed from malaysia ?

    let me end with

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2019/04/05/the-world-economy-is-a-pyramid-scheme-steven-chu-says/#eaafb484f178 ?

    nonsence hor ? don’t try to help the white idiots too much with their stupig policy lar ?

    //One full hour you can hardly see any customers.So you want to become rich is difficult.
    Here if you know how cook well and start a famous food stall ,you can be a millionaire .
    With the appropriate population . Economy able to grow , it create a lot of opportunities for Singaporeans.//

    aiyoh. appropriate population ? 6.9m (scientific one or pluck from the sky) or 10m or 99m ? grow for who lar ?

    again this https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2019/04/05/the-world-economy-is-a-pyramid-scheme-steven-chu-says/#eaafb484f178 ?

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  • Why they like to work in IT?:

    We all know that IT pays well and just needs brain power and very little capital as compared to production and design jobs in a manufacturing industry for example. But why is every Indian and his puppy do IT? What’s the real reason that allows those with just 3 months of fake certs and those with zero IT experiences , and those coming from other disciplines such as economics, accounting and whatnots also got into IT soo easily?. They all wallow in IT jobs, stealing high paying jobs from the real IT McCoys.

    Because it is damn easy to con yourself into IT!!! Especially with the SG’s rigid and hierarchical company organisation where the manager makes all the decision, often with zero IT knowledge! After passing this barrier by hook or crook, they will in turn recruit their own kind , to protect themselves. Gang up when needed and make themselves indisposable. Even without IT knowledge , many managed to hang on to jobs for donkey years doing nothing! How can this happened? Many ways – by relying on vendors, calling friends to provide solutions when stuck, pushing work to their colleagues, spending more time politicking and claiming credits that belongs to other employees.
    Working in IT industry is unlike working in construction industry where people easily gauge the work done by seeing the building going up floor by floor. In IT almost everything is invisible, if you have no IT knowledge, unless you can read code, the IT con-artist would claim work has been done at every management meeting even though nothing works. When the truth is finally known, probably after a 2 or more years, these very “creative” IT con-artist would move on to a new job and start conning again.
    Well, we imported their cheating culture , hopefully they don’t start excreting on the railway tracks and beaches like they do at home! PAP is very silent on CECA now, where is Georgie Yeo who still dare to claimed he did a good job with CECA in the 2015 election. Karma is a b*t*h, those involved with CECA’s signing are all being punished – Heng, stroke almost killed him, Georgie Yeoh lost his GRC, Pinkie and old Woody both had prostate cancer. God save Singapura!!!

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  • Shot sighted:

    @6.9M (scientific one)
    aiyoh. in the 80s or even 90s, the number was still manageable lar ? now OPEN SEASON FOR OPEN-LEG POLICY LAR ? you swallow 1 panadol when you were a teenager, still ok lar ? try swallowing 1000 panadols at one go as an adult lor ?
    And
    Your link on pyramid scheme on population.
    & OPEN LEG POLICY .////////////////////////:

    Your link on pyramid population is not relevant to us at all.
    Look at this
    Our Pioneer generation has about 4 hundred thousand over people & baby boomers is about 1 million.
    Our birth rate is 1.14 last year.
    We have a serious population declination.
    How can be pyramid scheme?

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  • oxygen:

    @ short-sighted

    YOU ARE WRONG there again of these distorted observations Except for West Asia, Indonesia, BlangaDesh and parts of Africa, the entire world is seeing population declination.

    Shot sighted: Your link on pyramid population is not relevant to us at all.
    ……………How can be pyramid scheme?

    THOSE COUNTRIES WITH EXPLOSIVE POPULATION ARE IN DIRE ECONOMIC STRETCH, and Singapore is heading that way to by foreign influx – IN EFFECT OF REALITY IS POPULATION PYRAMID FABRICATION which is clearly UNSUSTAINABLE EVEN AS OF NOW.

    Have you read my comments here why this is so?

    oxygen: SO BOTTOMLINE IS THIS – PAPpynomics reliance on flooding this country with overpopulation is unsustainable – MORE HUNGER, MORE UNEMPLOYMENT, MORE ABUSE FROM THOSE…I BOUGHT THIS FXXKING PROPERTY FOR $1.5 MILLION CRAP FROM EX-FOREIGNERS….AND MORE MISERY FOR ALL SURVIVING ON PAPpypolitics/PAPpynomics FAILED ECONOMIC MISMANAGEMENT.

    IT IS TIME TO VOTE FOR CHANGE.

    http://www.tremeritus.net/2019/11/07/open-letter-to-minister-lam-pin-min/

    The reversal of e-scooters and PMD use of pedestrain footpath prove the limited land space makes transportation infrastructure woefully inadequate and incapable of sustaining even current population.

    PLEASE DON’T LIE TO YOURSELF EVEN IF YOU DESPERATELY WANT TO AND MUST LIE TO THE REST OF US, THANKS.

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  • Short sighted:

    @oxygen

    THOSE COUNTRIES WITH EXPLOSIVE POPULATION ARE IN DIRE ECONOMIC STRETCH, and Singapore is heading that way to by foreign influx – IN EFFECT OF REALITY IS POPULATION PYRAMID FABRICATION which is clearly UNSUSTAINABLE EVEN AS OF NOW.
    Have you read my comments here why this is so?
    /////////////////////////////////////////

    Other countries I don’t have any idea.
    But our Singapore you just imagine today we are without the 2 over million foreigners here to help us.
    How many businesses will disappear from Singapore? Because Not enough workers.How many jobs will disappear.
    Coffee shops will run out of business and other f&b businesses and other related business will be all lost.
    Worst last year our birth rate is 1.14 even more scary because we will be in severe decline.

    oxygen: SO BOTTOMLINE IS THIS – PAPpynomics reliance on flooding this country with overpopulation is unsustainable – MORE HUNGER, MORE UNEMPLOYMENT, MORE ABUSE FROM THOSE…I BOUGHT THIS FXXKING PROPERTY FOR $1.5 MILLION CRAP FROM EX-FOREIGNERS….AND MORE MISERY FOR ALL SURVIVING ON PAPpypolitics/PAPpynomics FAILED ECONOMIC MISMANAGEMENT.
    IT IS TIME TO VOTE FOR CHANGE.
    ///////////////////////////////////////////

    Your bottom line shows that you are very myopic
    You just go to any famous food stalls or restaurants look at the long Q.hunger ?
    HDB flats is always affordable to every Singaporeans ,basic housing need is not a problem here and is always very well taken care by our government.
    If you are talking about $1.5million property that’s secondary.
    If Singaporeans can afford to own $1.5 million and above properties.This show our economy is working .To pay for such properties you must have good jobs high income then you can afford.
    There must also have business opportunities for Singaporeans.

    The reversal of e-scooters and PMD use of pedestrain footpath prove the limited land space makes transportation infrastructure woefully inadequate and incapable of sustaining even current population.
    /////////////////////////////////////////////

    Your above observation on PMB ban is fallacious.
    PMB is supposed to be a very good kind of transportation mode.
    But the problems is the abuses by the users.
    They travel on the center of the road like motorcycle and the worst thing is speeding at very high speeds.
    Once hits pedestrian is no different from motorcycle accident ,can be very fatal.
    If nothing is done now and the PMB number keep increasing.
    One day the fatal accident rate will be just like motor vehicles accidents.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Short sighted:

    Oi Oi Oi, mate, you validated my compelling suspicion that you are a true and thorough sample of another PAPpy frog in the well.

    Short sighted: Other countries I don’t have any idea.

    Look at this facile narrative

    Short sighted: you just imagine today we are without the 2 over million foreigners here to help us.

    THESE 2 MILLION foreigners ARE ALREADY HERE but the economy is still sinking needing more to prevent it from drowning – despite technology advancement lifting productivity. Of the 2 milion, nearly one million is cheap construction workers, low value added contribution to economy turning Singapore into a all yr-round permanent construction site. Minus this we are dead town. How many in your family and relative prosper from this economic sector which is only 5% or less of your economic base? And U need nearly one million of foreigners to create a false facade of busy booming town?

    And this nonsense

    Short sighted: Your bottom line shows that you are very myopic
    You just go to any famous food stalls or restaurants look at the long Q.hunger ?

    The so-called long Q is only 0.000000001% of the total population. If this even evaporate, Singapore already disappeared and it is like Pedra Branca – totally barren of economic activity and permanent habitation.

    And this is not laughable enough?

    Short sighted: They travel on the center of the road like motorcycle and the worst thing is speeding at very high speeds.

    If Singapore is large enough, can’t they create a PMD pathways on the road for them instead of zigzagging on the centre of thee road?

    Surely you must be lying to yourself with this denial of evidence of my complaint.

    oxygen: The reversal of e-scooters and PMD use of pedestrain footpath prove the limited land space makes transportation infrastructure woefully inadequate and incapable of sustaining even current population.

    YOU DOUBLED UP ON LYING IN DENIAL OF REALITY.

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