So, where is the damage?

If sustained accusations from his own siblings over a period of time have – apparently – not damaged his reputation (and he didn’t find it necessary to sue them), how could a mere sharing of an article on Facebook – which drew less than 25 “likes” – cause more damage, or any damage at all?

And mind you, those accusations from his own siblings are still up on Facebook, more than a year (2 years?) since they were first posted.

He didn’t even demand them to be taken down, apparently.

And LHL won in AMK handsomely in the recent elections too. His party also had a clear mandate, as his ministers said.

So, where is the damage?

I am just trying to understand how our defamation laws work, and I am dumbfounded, to be honest.

 

Andrew Loh

 

 

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38 Responses to “So, where is the damage?”

  • Lye Khuen Way:

    Many were and are still as dumbfounded as Mr Andrew Loh.

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  • AristoCATs - Sensitive, too?:

    AristoCATs have their grievances, too.

    -
    Some damage is not physically visible.

    Plus, some people are more sensitive to comments than others.

    Emotional trauma, etc?
    Can not be soothed, even with multi-million dollar high PM salary.
    -
    Yes, this lawsuit is part of “inclusive” governance that PM promised.
    -
    For the rest of us, Remember the power of the Ballot Box !

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  • Junk worth $50,000:

    That’s your answer.

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  • Two Lampars On Shoulders Idiot:

    This got to shows that “blood is thicker than water”
    Remember one ‘Old goose’ says something to the equivalent of a western aphorism “He ain’t heavy, he is my brother”?

    So I can’t understand why peasants still support the entire aristocratic family’s theatrics. This is symptomatic to the filthy rich like the LML’s case and many others. They, as Simon says, “eat full full, nothing better to do” or Hokkien sayings “Chiak ka par boh sai pang”

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  • Tremendous:

    A to B : you damaged my reputation.
    B‘s lawyer : where ?
    A (not answering the question) : you are a thorn.
    B : I didn’t endorse the article. Many people share articles about you too.
    A’s expert : fake info spreads faster.
    B’s lawyer : got solid evidence or not ?
    A’s expert (not answering the question) : I got years of experience on fake info

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  • To Accuse Someone Stealing:

    If I reported to the police that someone stolen my gold bar. Do I need to give evidence that I own the gold bar in the first place? Then subsequently given evidence that my gold bar was actually stolen?

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  • Pap GAME the SYSTEM:

    The PAP Government also lost sight of easy “wins”. Instead of trying to connect with the people who did not vote for it, the Prime Minister chose to call non PAP voters “free riders”, seemingly oblivious to the possibility that the younger generation do not appreciate being patronised.

    Will the Government learn? Or

    ” The gov has been gaming the system with ppl like KhawBW, LimSS, J Teo, Muralli, etc etc.”

    Time to ” SACK ” this gov. Period.

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  • To Accuse Someone Stealing:
    If I reported to the police that someone stolen my gold bar. Do I need to give evidence that I own the gold bar in the first place? Then subsequently given evidence that my gold bar was actually stolen?

    If you aristocrat say can liao, if you peasant then must prove.

    Seriously hor, I find it is so easy to fix and make trouble for someone in Sinkieland one, all it takes is a police report and that person will be kajiao by the police liao.

    For example, you can lodge a police report say you gib me $100 to buy a packet of ciggy and I did not buy, the case will be classified as CBT and if I am in malaysia, then the police will put me under wanted list and I kenna at Causeway. You no need to prove you actually gave me the money, just say cash can liao.

    Later I kenna arrested liao, then I have to spend hours drinking coffee with the police explaining what did not happen. How am I supposed to prove that I did not receive the cash from you when in fact it never happened? Then my passport will be impounded and the investigation will take month, and if I am working in Johore, then I will lose my job, dio bo? In the end you just go police say aiyah, you remember wrongly liao and all is well and case closed. By then I would be jobless liao, easy to fix someone with the current system right?

    Some more, it’s your word against mine, so police tends to trust the complainant more than the accused.

    Compare that to the police in China, your report won’t even trigger an arrest at all and the police would spend time to verify your claims and then collaborate and collect enough evidence before they even bother to contact me to go for my statement. They may call me to explain the matter if they wish to speed up the process but usually they would investigate first and gather evidence because if I really did not take the money, I can fiack them upside down and they will end up looking like a fool. People fiack the police all the time in China if they commit mistakes, so they also very careful to not trouble the accused unless they have evidence. Unlike Sinkieland, they don’t arrest an accused first and then release them on bail and take their own sweet time to investigate and gather evidence like their Sinkie counterparts (excepotions are when the cases are very serious and they have prima facie evidence).

    Should they decide to arrest me, then you can be assured that they already have solid solid evidence against me liao.

    The difference between the 2 police is one do their job and assumes an accused is innocent while the other assumes the accused is guilty and they expect you to do their job for them and prove yourself innocent.

    Perfect example is the maid case, one simple report from an aristocrat, immediately the maid is assumed guilty and she has to fight her case in court to prove her innocense. The police just put her wanted list and don’t even bother to verify the complainant’s claims or check her side of the story.

    If I may render a wild guess, I would say 90% of reports lodged in Sinkieland results in an immediate arrest but in China, maybe only 50%. The low percentage I gave to China police is because they are so serious in doing their jobs that they don’t anyhow go around arresting people at first instance unless they have solid solid evidence. Most of the minor cases they are able to get the complainant and accused in the same room and settle amicably, not suga suga small small things also charge. If they do that (small small things also charge), the prosecutor’s office will throw the IPs back to the police and fiack them upside doen also. Sometimes if the complainant no give face to teh police, the prosecutors office would also go visit the complainant and talk talk, help the police settle the case for them without going to court. You have no idea how hard the police and prosecutor office work in China until you have seen it with your own eyes.

    So in my humble opinion, this Sinkiekland current system sucks big time and I hope the maid case would change the procedure whereby the police must be made to verify and gather enough evidence before “disturbing” the accused, like their China counterparts.

    Anyone disagree?

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  • Two Lampars on Shoulders Idiot:

    Unlike physical losses or damages, reputational damages are arbitrary. One can’t quantify it and Andrew is not quite right to use the above example. LHL did lose 6.73% from 2015 results and he can use that against Leong also. Unlike gold bars, reputational damages are hard to ascertain or prove.

    To Accuse Someone Stealing:
    If I reported to the police that someone stolen my gold bar. Do I need to give evidence that I own the gold bar in the first place? Then subsequently given evidence that my gold bar was actually stolen?

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  • Great Asia:

    Remind you with the Liew Mun Leong case. Ideally, the legal system should be impartial, but it’s always not so in practice.

    All our judges are millionaires in the high society, everybody knows everybody. So, who will take risk for a blogger?

    Ha ha ha!

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  • John Richards:

    To begin with, does the dishonorable son even have a reputation to protect? Just ask him how much his wife is being paid.

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  • xoxo:

    No need to go far out.
    Do you see THE SELF-PROCLAIMED *MR RIGHTEOUS* GO SUE THE *ORIGINATOR* OF THE COPIED ARTICLE posted by LZH?

    DO you bash the person who merely RELATES what he read?
    If that person feels victimised,then GO AFTER THE SOURCE OF ORIGIN.
    WHY HE NEVER DO THAT?

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  • Zhenzidan:

    Then Leong should have taken the stand and fought till the end. Even if he lost eventually, I’m sure people will raise money to help him. By chickening out, he gave Davinder many good reasons to mock at him for being a talk big.

    Just like WP kena sued regarding AHTC. Fight till the end, lost the suit but won over more voters.

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  • Tremendous:

    Great Asia:
    Remind you with the Liew Mun Leong case. Ideally, the legal system should be impartial, but it’s always not so in practice.

    All our judges are millionaires in the high society, everybody knows everybody. So, who will take risk for a blogger?

    Ha ha ha!

    Good point. By the way, which part of that village is judge villager Airedit living in :-)

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  • Bao Chin Tean:

    Evidently there is no damage to LHL by the blogger’s re-posting of “The Coverage” article. That’s why his Defence Counsel LT advise the defendant to decline taking the stand as the charge of defamation cannot stand!

    It is RIGHT VS WRONG!

    ULTIMATELY RIGHT WILL PREVAIL!

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  • PAP is screwed:

    No wonder PAP lost badly in the last election and is going down the drain.

    4G leadership is in shambles and PAP is fast losing support..

    Wondering what will be his LEEgacy when he retires …

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  • seriously !:

    that pic!
    the Queen of SG waving to her loyal subjects..
    really got people there waving at him, meh?
    wanna LOL!

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  • throw out flimsy case:

    should get the Lee siblings as character witnesses, to testify against LHL.
    he is not fit to sue anyone.
    his bayee lawyer should be suspended for giving lhl, his client, incorrect advice to sue.

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  • Sue The Author:

    The siblings probably did more damage to him than that one article which few people even remember until it is brought up again at this time. Most “smart” Singaporeans would have dismissed it as speculative and without basis or evidence to support the allegation. His friendly ties with Najib might have fueled the speculation but that’s about it. If he wants to, he could sue the author/writer of the article instead of “uncle Leong” who reproduced it but subsequently took it down when ordered to do so. Or was Leong getting “too hot” for comfort that he has to be crushed, just like RN? The next one to watch is P.J. Thum.

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  • Harder Truths:

    The damage is to his ego. His life is sacred and must not be defiled by the common man in any manner. His actions are above the law.

    The fact that someone can just report on what is common information is tantamount to sacrilege in his eyes.

    You can see this despot has lost it. So $G has a cuckoo running the show now.

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  • Self-entitlement narcissists..:

    All other things being equal, Sinchiapor Incorporated’s big brass crony-capitalists are ranked 4th biggest cronies in the world 2016. Why didn’t he go sue “The Economist” if that’s fake news? It’s been four years now they’ve been lumped together with corrupted Russia, Najibian Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia and India…. some reputation indeed…

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  • Reputation & real character:

    “He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it. Fine words and an insinuating appearance are seldom associated with true virtue. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.”

    - Confucius -

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  • irreparable:

    When the Strong wants someone or something fixed, he consults his “angels” or ministers. In this instance, he goes to his..scribes(lawyers).

    His lawyers or judges will tell him whether they(under him) can build up a case to fix the person, individuals or organisation etc.

    So far in the history of Sin it has worked. Sin has evolved into her own unique system of..injustice.

    China follows closely as she was influenced by Sin’s wisdom.

    That being said there is really nothing new about Sin’s methodology. The “old man” took it to the next level in the most prosperous of times and led the world to the day of reckoning.

    Now the case is before the strong man’s judges. Will they wayang, because everyone knows what the outcome would be(if verdict does not favour the PM then heads must roll to all his scribes and ministers)?

    Either way, the system has been corrupted by…mammon. It is irreparable.

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  • S$99m pa ownself paid wage:

    pap is in trouble.

    it has a fragile clown who is leading it.

    so ffffing fragile.

    a little bit of truth also can ruin reputation.

    so ffffing fragile.

    wonder why amk sheep voted for such a fragile clown.

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  • Uselesstankl:

    He also submitted that an individual found liable for the original publication “is also liable for all subsequent republications which are the natural and probable result of his act”.

    xxxx

    So, who was it ?

    Leong ?

    Or

    Some malaysian publication ?

    I unrest my casee…

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  • actions or written communicati:

    //And mind you, those accusations from his own siblings are still up on Facebook, more than a year (2 years?) since they were first posted.//

    aiyoh. where got bro suing bro one lar ?

    if kenna sued, wait all the evidence (behaviors, actions or written communication that are private and will not normally be displayed in public) for the last 50 to 60 years since kindergarden time will be dug out to prove a point, then how ??

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  • cant wait for that day:

    one day the Pandora’s Box is gonna explode wide open.
    as we see, its coming closer n closer.
    Karma will do them in for taking advantage of good hardworking ordinary sgs for decades.
    i hope this judge has a straight backbone at least!

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  • MarBowling:

    Mai Hum has said that the LEEgal advices given by his lawyers cum hyenas has PROMPTED him to SUE Leong Sze Hian until his pants drop or until bankrupt and need to sleep in the street! period. And the MAIN AIM and PURPOSE of SUING he said is TO PROTECT HIS “OWN REPUTATION AND STANDING”!

    This phase “OWN REPUTATION AND STANDING” has HIDDEN MEANING!. “OWN REPUTATION” mean it’s Mai Hum’s OWN PERSONAL REPUTATION. The Mother of all BIG QUESTIONS in this TRIAL is he seeking to VINDICATE his OWN PERSONAL REPUTATION using Taxpayers money or is he FOOTING HALF the TOTAL BILL By FORKING from his OWN PERSONAL POCKET?

    Next is his “OWN STANDING” which mean his STANDING as the PeeM of SinKapore! Fair enough, since he is the STANDING PeeM, the Coverment should foot HALF the Bill for him. NOTWITHSTANDING the amount of human resource and times using Huge Amount of Hard Earned Taxpayers’ money in this ongoing Holee Trial, True Blue Singaporean would like the GOOD JUDGE when DISHING OUT THE FINAL VERDICT to also STATE CLEARLY WHO SHOULD FOOT THE BILL FOR VINDICATING 1)OWN PERSONAL REPUTATION and 2)STANDING AS THE PeeM of Sinkapore!

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  • Live and Let Live:

    It should be considered re-posting or sharing, and not publishing or re-publishing as he did not re-word the article or added any more spice to it. Everyday, we shared so many articles, from known and unknown sources. Even sources from established newspapers can sometimes be fake or half-truths. And then there is sharing of other information like advertisements and blogs.

    If every little thing we can find to sue one another, then we might as well not have Facebook, Twitter, Whatsapp, etc. In other words, no friends and no social.

    Information is widely available on the internet now, and people are more informed as compared to days without the internet. When LSH shared the article, the first thing we would be asking is “Is it true?”. And our question will be analogously directed back to the article from The Coverage.

    So the people that are sharing the article are ‘Checking’ the article. The Coverage is the publisher. As for LSL, he can leave the rumour to die down or clarify that there is no truth in The Coverage article. That’s it and end of.

    If it is true, we all know that paper cannot wrap fire and the truth will surface one day. If it is false, even a hundred articles will not damage your reputation.

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  • Bad Boy:

    Leong never take the stand . mmm

    Another endorsement that chinese culture 正大光明 , 浩然正氣, 人不做虧心事半夜敲門不驚心… 1 big bs.

    Indirectly default ? Tacit consent ?

    A maid done better.

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  • super talented flexibility:

    //Unlike gold bars, reputational damages are hard to ascertain or prove.//

    aiyoh. anything qualitative is hard to put fix on it lar ??

    but then if white idiots could twist an absolute 4 into 5 and a “selected” into an “elected”, can you imagine their super talented flexibility to ascertain or prove (aka “bastardize” hor) anything ???

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  • xoxo:

    Like that call *DAMAGE*?
    WHAT about DAMAGE$ caused to OUR RESERVES, OUR CPF, OUR JOBS?

    NO NEED TO BE PUNISHED?
    NO NEED TO ACCOUNT FOR BIG LOOTING OF RESERVES?
    THERE shud be A NEW AUDIT COMMITTEE CHAIRED BY OPPO N REPORT TO ELECTED PRESIDENT to check the USE OF RESERVES N FILE OFFICIAL REPORTS TO CITIZENS.

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  • xoxo:

    Even BIG MNCs have SEPARATE AUDIT DEPT reporting to CHAIRMAN’S OFFICE?

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  • xoxo:

    Auditor-general oso reports to ECECUTIVE BRANCH WHO ARE THE PAPple using the RESERVES?

    KEY TO RESERVES HALIMAH MUST HAVE INDEPENDANT AUDIT TEAM HEADED BY OPPO PREFERRABLY.

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  • Two Lampars on Shoulders:

    Better to ask “who on top”?

    John Richards:
    To begin with, does the dishonorable son even have a reputation to protect? Just ask him how much his wife is being paid.

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  • WP Voter:

    SG is ruled by 83 elitists who oversee some 3000 people running the PA. They make all the decisions since 1968 with a blank cheque. It is a PAPa-and-children relationship. Every child must be obedient. Disobedience is free-loading. So, a family revelation via FB is a No-No.

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  • Two Lampars on Shoulders:

    Now you know the answer why they refused to reveal gorilla’s pay and how much Temasek make/lost? Quantitative can prove. You not white idiot. Maybe minus the “white”

    super talented flexibility:
    //Unlike gold bars, reputational damages are hard to ascertain or prove.//

    aiyoh. anything qualitative is hard to put fix on it lar ??

    but then if white idiots could twist an absolute 4 into 5 and a “selected” into an “elected”, can you imagine their super talented flexibility to ascertain or prove (aka “bastardize” hor) anything ???

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  • song song not reveal:

    //Now you know the answer why they refused to reveal gorilla’s pay and how much Temasek make/lost? Quantitative can prove. You not white idiot. Maybe minus the “white”//

    aiyoh. as long as got 50% (winners take all) ?? they could still song song not reveal lar ??

    quantitative can prove but going for long term 100-to-999 years performance (not short term fluctuating results) is also logical hor ?

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