Ben Davis NS deferment: MINDEF talking rubbish?

I refer to the article “Ben Davis has no intention to fulfil NS duties; actions meant to further his professional career: MINDEF” (Channel NewsAsia, Jul 18).

It states that “The Ministry of Defence (MINDEF) revealed on Wednesday (Jul 18) that Harvey Davis, the father of Fulham footballer Benjamin Davis, “would not commit to a date” on when his son intended to return and serve his national service (NS) during the deferment application process.”

In this regard, according to the article “Ben Davis’ father: It’s ‘unfortunate’ that MINDEF thinks my son would not return to serve NS” (Channel NewsAsia, Jul 18) – “Harvey Davis, the father of Singaporean footballer Ben Davis, said in a statement on Wednesday (Jun 18) that it is “unfortunate” that the Ministry of Defence (MINDEF) has an impression that his son would not return to Singapore to serve his National Service (NS).

“There are a lot of variables all dependent on his development and progression, and anyone who understands how professional football and sports works will understand this,” Mr Davis said in a media statement.

“In my discussions with SportSG and the Ministry of Culture, Community and Youth (MCCY), I was clear that Ben should do his NS but the question is just when,” he added.

“This point was reiterated in an email response which was sent to MCCY on May 15. In that email, I had said very clearly that while renunciation was an option, it is not Ben’s intention at all as he would like to represent Singapore.””

As to “Mr Davis also said that he made it clear that he agreed “100 per cent” that his son should do his National Service: “My older boy has already completed his NS and both Ben and his younger brother Jai will also complete their NS. The only question is timing for Ben as we would like to give him the best opportunity to play at the highest possible professional level in the UK and Europe.

“If Ben does not get a renewed contract or new contract by May 2020 then he should return to serve his NS” – I was talking to some friends and they said “aiyah MINDEF is talking rubbish lah – his father is being honest, and saying that if he does not get a contract – then he will return to serve NS by May 2020 – but if he gets a contract – he will return after the end of this contract

why did MINDEF conclude that he “would not commit to a date” and use this like an after-thought excuse for not granting deferment because he “would not commit to a date”?

So, what does MINDEF expect his father to say given the circumstances?

That he will return to do his NS by say 2023 (assuming a prediction that his contract is expected to expire then)?”

With regard to “Mr Davis said that he has not met with anyone from MINDEF and was not aware of what was presented by MCCY to MINDEF with regard to his son’s request for deferment” – my friends said “can MINDEF now please confirm whether they did communicate directly with him?

And if not, why not?

If there was indeed no direct communication as is now alleged by the father – how on earth did MINDEF come to the conclusion that he “would not commit to a date”?

In respect of “In a reply to media queries, MINDEF added that Benjamin went on to sign the contract despite the rejection for deferment and noted that the senior Davis has publicly stated that he would encourage his son to renounce his citizenship in order to pursue his career” – my friends’ said “this one is even more ridiculous – as what does MINDEF expect his father to do – don’t sign the contract (and throw his son’s future into the drain!) – of course any father would just sign first so that at least he can appeal to MINDEF and still keep the possibility alive lah”

this kind of reasoning and excuse from MINDEF is really lame lah!

As to “”(Benjamin’s) actions are meant to further his own professional career, not national interest. As his father openly admitted, he is looking out for his son’s future, not Singapore’s,” said MINDEF” – my friends said “this one lagi best and classic lah – what’s so wrong with a father saying that “he is looking out for his son’s future” – does MINDEF really expect him to wayang and jia jia say “Oh I am looking out for Singapore’s future, more so than my son’s!””

With regard to “”To allow deferment for this type of appeal, would severely undermine the ethos and sacrifice of Singaporeans who have all put aside their personal interests to complete their NS duties.”

The note, which was seen by Channel NewsAsia, said Davis signing of a contract with Fulham is a “personal pursuit” which is “no different from the personal pursuits by other pre-enlistees like university studies or working in other professional fields”” – my friends said “double standard lah – can MINDEF please explain the apparent double standard in cases like “Patrick Tan was granted disruption for 12 years from NS in 1988″.

Prior to his disruption, Dr Patrick Tan completed his Basic Military Training and Officer Cadet Course (Junior Term) with the rest of his cohort.

A President’s Scholar, Dr Patrick Tan’s NS Service was subsequently put on hold for 4 years, so he could study for a pre-medical degree in Harvard University.

He then went on to complete his combined MD/PhD Medical Scientist Training Programme in Stanford University.

Dr Patrick Tan served his remaining NS term as a Defence Medical Scientist when he returned to Singapore in 2000” (“7 Successful National Service Deferment & Disruption Cases” (mustsharenews, Jul 16).

 

Leong Sze Hian

 

 

 

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42 Responses to “Ben Davis NS deferment: MINDEF talking rubbish?”

  • Bapak:

    Now you Sinkies know our military are run by people without full grab of the suituation before making follish conclusion. Do you trust your son’s safety & life in their hands, especially all their paper generals have zero actual war fighting experience. Yes, they do have online warfare experience. Your son will be one of the soldiers in their warcraft. Stupid Sinkies fathers who voted & supports the PAP G to put you son life in danger.

    Whoever echo country before self please repeat it to both Tony & Patrick Tan, son of our ex-Defense Minister. Sinkies father, learn how ang moh father protect his family. You fucking 70% Sinkies fathers, you guys are destroying your family by voting PAP.

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  • 70% mandated:

    30% outvoted. No say please.

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  • LIONS:

    A President’s Scholar, Dr Patrick Tan’s NS Service was subsequently put on hold for 4 years, so he could study for a pre-medical degree in Harvard University.

    He then went on to complete his combined MD/PhD Medical Scientist Training Programme in Stanford University.

    Dr Patrick Tan served his remaining NS term as a Defence Medical Scientist when he returned to Singapore in 2000” (“7 Successful National Service Deferment & Disruption Cases” (mustsharenews, Jul 16).
    =============================================================================

    one is ARI$TOCRAP,the other a PEASANT?

    TRIPLE CONFIRMED PAP IS PRO-RICH,PRO-ALIEN.

    VOTE PAP,MORE PEASANTS GOING TO MATI.

    BEN,i support your family’s decision to LEAVE SIN CITY,NOTHING WRONG TO PURSUE HIGHER TRAINING IN YOUR GOD-GIVEN TALENT MUCH LIKE HOW PAP SEND YOUNG 18-YEAR-OLDS TO IVY LEAGUE JUST BECOS THEY ARE GOOD AT BOOKS???

    SERIOUSLY,THE PAP even gives them HEFTY MONTHLY ALLOWANCES???

    YOU DON T US ANYTHING,JUST DO YOUR BEST AND MAKE SG N SGS PROUD.
    WONT BE SURPRISED IF YOU ARE A SUCCESS,THE PIGS WILL ASK FOR YOUR HELP TO TRAIN OUR SOCCER BOYS IN FUTURE???

    HYPOCRITES N SELF-SERVING!

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  • LIONS:

    BEN,you are the EQUIVALENT OF ‘PRESIDENT SCHOLAR’ BUT IN THE FIELD OF SOCCER.
    ANYWAYS,THOSE BOOKWORM SCHOLARS AFTER NS DEFERMENT N MUCH TAXPAYER MON EY ONLY COME BACK N SCREW TAXPAYERS UPSIDE DOWN WITH THEIR STUPID IDEAS N COCK-TALKING.

    FOR ONE,I ‘KEE-CHIU’ for you! GO YOUNG LION,GO!

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  • Boh Kia See:

    It is this common attitude of the PAP that spreads into all the Government Departments–that everyone is trying their best to cheat the PAP; to escape this requirement or that duty.

    All the PAP actions stem from this attitude. If I were Ben, even if I have no intention of not serving NS(btw, I did serve) such treatment will motivate me to give up my citizen and do what they expected–that is not to serve NS.

    But if Ben eventually becomes a Ronaldo or a Beckham, you will find these same PAP Ministers, sticking around him like flies. See what happened to Schooling–after he won gold and before his gold medal win. That is the PAP for you. Still vote for them?

    Don’t forget Philip Tan, son of the then Minister of Defense, I think he still holds the record for a 12 year deferment. It shows that you got to know somebody or are related to somebody in the PAP to get that deferment. Then there is this Seet, chap involved with 1MDB, you will not hear a word about him in the local papers–because he is related to the power clique.

    On another note, don’t ever get Woody involved with the opposition parties. He is not a Tun M and never will be. He is a chameleon and an opportunist that will change colour to suit his purpose not the country’s purpose.

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  • Samuel S:

    Leave Singapore follows LHY who already to giving up!

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  • Aircond lab:

    There are many ways to serve NS. One is to serve by working in an air conditioned laboratory.

    Off course, ideally, like me I’d to serve in the field like an infantry soldier.

    But hey, why not serve in an Overseas Mission, in London where he will be based! After all, there are also full time career soldiers and policemen serving in the embassies overseas. Mindef is a rigid organisation, I am sure! Provided you know who………to get to an airconditioner lab?

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  • cheap cheaper cheaperest:

    unfortunate. he should have left much earlier and give up that pink ic much earlier. now that he is under the microscope, die die they make him spend the regulatory time before letting him go.

    we are citizens, completed full time NSF and completed full cycle NSR. we say, don’t waste your precious life being cheap labour for someone else’s military promotion. even one day is a waste of time.

    15 years ago the thought of having wasted our time did not cross our mind. but today, 15 years later, we tell every person who listens not to waste their precious time here. it is not worth it.

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  • William C:

    He is not my brother
    He is not my son

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  • William C:

    Why the PRC male ping pong players converted new citizen no need to serve NS?
    During their low season period, also can do 2 months BMT in Tekong. Got do or not?

    Where is Gao Ning? Drag until 35 and exceeded the enlistment age? I remember in the past if you can sing, you join the SAF Musical Drama Unit. If you can play football, you can join the SAF soccer team.

    Why not defer his NS until 29 years old. Let him play in UK at his prime.

    He should come under the exit permit rules. Once he has no more contract and below 29, then come back and serve. I thought there is also a security bond.

    Simple solution and workaround. Just too bad he is not my brother or son.

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  • Bobo:

    Will the Minister of defence promise our NS guys a secure job after two years of mean and tough trainings? Who think that PAP is sincere in serving Singapore before them? Who think that those PLPs have no personal motives to serve PAP before the country?

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  • William C:

    He is only 17 turning 18. A lot of Poly student also enter NS at 21 years (because they repeated Pri or Sec). Why not just give a deferment until 210? At least he has 4 years to play in UK.

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  • Anonymous incognito:

    The parents should take the ministry to court for slander and libel. And hit them with huge damages. 20 million$
    It’s deeply insulting and troubling that the ministry would even slander this boy without any proof of their allegations.
    Fulham should also take the ministry to court over interfering in a contract.

    Yeah everyone will lose but just the loss of face should be enough to deter the ministry from ever being dicks like that again

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  • Bapak:

    Harvey Davis should pull his whole family out of Sinkland and tell the www this land is sinking fast better get out while you can.

    It is so unproductive to fight this one-sided for white horses PAP G. Even if Ben gotten the deferment, in 2 year times if he qualifies to sign on to further advance his career, then how, what? The whole process start all over again? Harvey dont waste your time. With 70% stupid Sinkies giving PAP the mandate to screw you, you will not win.

    Get out, perge PAP out of your lives forever and get back your CPF money. You foreigners shouldn’t have come to Sinkland in the first place. Dont fool yourselves our educational system is the best for your kids. We never produce a Nobel Prize winner & thinker. We only produce boss carriers & followers not winner. Is this what you want for your family?

    Singapore is an Animal Farm where all men are equal but some are more equal in fine print. Harvey go have your brain check why you come in the first place. You fall into their advertisement trap. You never did your homework before you come. You must be an idiot. GET OUT, FORGET SINKLAND.

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  • sandy:

    soilders which cannot think for themself in a face of any battle 1st,will be of no use to defeat any enemies.

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  • KNN:

    The Enlistment Act is damn anti-human rights. According to S’pore law, Ben Davis now has no choice but to serve NS, even if he renounce S’pore citizenship.

    This means that even if he become British or Oz citizen, and renounced his SG citizenship — he is still legally required to do his NS!!! Basically he will be considered AWOL and will be arrested if he stops by S’pore e.g. transit in Changi airport.

    The only way for a Sinkie to avoid NS (other than doing aircon office NS as a minister white horse, or be half-dead and declared medically unfit) is:
    1) Before 12 — apply for NS deferment to above 21, say 23 or 24. Usually not approved unless you show that you are going to stay overseas long-term.

    2) From 12 to 21 — avoid using “subsidized” services especially govt schools and govt hospitals. But if you’re overseas, you won’t be using these anyway.

    At the same time, get PR or citizenship of another country if you don’t already have.

    3) At 21 — Renounce SG citizenship. Since you deferred NS to beyond 21, but are now no longer Sinkie … hence no need to serve liao.

    NOTE: Under S’pore law, a Sinkie can only renounce SG citizenship at 21 or above, hence Step 1 to defer NS to beyond 21.

    If you miss Step 1, very difficult liao. Once you reach 15 or 16, forget it.

    I had a classmate in the late-1970s who missed step 1 — the father applied only when he was 13+, almost 14. But the father was a big shot in some MNC, knew a few high-level ministers, and was successful in appeal.

    Moreover, in the 1970s, big MNC investments in S’pore were very important, compared to today. I’m sure a deal was worked out.

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  • Perpetuator Of Evils:

    This is an organization that exploited young sinkies, treated their lives as dirt and openly stole from hardworking entrepreneurs.

    Accidental deaths of young NSmen were covered up and used as mere OJT tools and repeated reminders to patchup half past six training doctrines. Lifelong inventions of scientists were blatantly copied.

    Mindef should stopped using other NSmen slavery predicament as convenient excuse to advance it’s own agenda. Mindef is never fair to any poor sinkies except as protector of their masters power and wealth.

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  • You Voted For It:

    Aircond lab:
    There are many ways to serve NS. One is to serve by working in an air conditioned laboratory.

    Off course, ideally, like me I’d to serve in the field like an infantry soldier.

    But hey, why not serve in an Overseas Mission, in London where he will be based! After all, there are also full time career soldiers and policemen serving in the embassies overseas. Mindef is a rigid organisation, I am sure! Provided you know who………to get to an airconditioner lab?

    Your father is a PAP crony or not?! If not, forget it.
    President’s son deferment record is 12 years, this will be the yardstick, doubt few, if any could beat this.
    With this as reference, there will be plenty of leeway and room for the next aspirant.

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  • haha:

    “If Ben does not get a renewed contract or new contract by May 2020 then he should return to serve his NS” … but if he gets a contract – he will return after the end of this contract. Sure or not? What happen if another contract is awaiting then. Might as well renounce citizenshop lah.

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  • Forced Itself Into Dead Corner:

    William C:
    He is only 17 turning 18. A lot of Poly student also enter NS at 21 years (because they repeated Pri or Sec). Why not just give a deferment until 210? At least he has 4 years to play in UK.

    That can be a win win, but
    there is no way to backtrack, it will be a slap on the faces of all self entitled paper generals and mindef for the plain rigidity and lack of common sense. To make a molehill issue out of one simple little example.

    Do you think Sillypore will survive in the hands of these good for nothings?

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  • pap 1 law 2 interpretations:

    William C:
    Why the PRC male ping pong players converted new citizen no need to serve NS?
    During their low season period, also can do 2 months BMT in Tekong. Got do or not?

    Where is Gao Ning? Drag until 35 and exceeded the enlistment age? I remember in the past if you can sing, you join the SAF Musical Drama Unit. If you can play football, you can join the SAF soccer team.

    Why not defer his NS until 29 years old. Let him play in UK at his prime.

    He should come under the exit permit rules. Once he has no more contract and below 29, then come back and serve. I thought there is also a security bond.

    Simple solution and workaround. Just too bad he is not my brother or son.

    clown pap Ljs cow boon huan from malaysia and puthcheary also from malaysia also did NOT serve NSF nor NSR yet S$m courtesy of pap clown. WTF.

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  • sandy:

    same same mindef also selfish thinking for themself 1st.
    don tell me 1 man can make a diff in war.just enlist superman
    will do then.

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  • N.Jungne:

    Ben bring about the “End” of the you know WHO.

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  • I'm Halimah also jiak liao bee:

    As long as you are are a PAPIGS or one of their Cronies, everything also can.
    It’s LEEgal corruption after all.

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  • 100%Dun trust this gov:

    Poor guy. Hope everything turns out ok in the end.
    Now all u other new citizens, take note.
    This unfit mil$ gov had oredy screwed the local natives, now theyre coming after you too.
    Please tell your friends or relatives wishing to sink their roots in this Sinkingpore not to come.
    All the best to you Ben Davies. Hope you find a way out.
    The best is to uproot n leave after Ben’s NS is over. Sacrifice your life n dream for what? Your adopted country only looks after their own kind= sons of elites n the like.

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  • Tremendous:

    Not being nosy, BUT 12 years of deferment is a great feat. Why not run a full page in the main papers detailing Patrick’s achievements for Singapore over 12 years of deferment ? Study time will be counted, who among common citizens has the luxury of studying for years without significant output ? If that cannot be done, then it’s another case of pursuing his career interests, isn’t it ? Don’t give the impression that the organization wants to cover up something, please.

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  • Bapak:

    Like this the system is very pliant, isn’t it?

    KNN:
    The Enlistment Act is damn anti-human rights. According to S’pore law, Ben Davis now has no choice but to serve NS, even if he renounce S’pore citizenship.

    This means that even if he become British or Oz citizen, and renounced his SG citizenship — he is still legally required to do his NS!!! Basically he will be considered AWOL and will be arrested if he stops by S’pore e.g. transit in Changi airport.

    The only way for a Sinkie to avoid NS (other than doing aircon office NS as a minister white horse, or be half-dead and declared medically unfit) is:
    1) Before 12 — apply for NS deferment to above 21, say 23 or 24. Usually not approved unless you show that you are going to stay overseas long-term.

    2) From 12 to 21 — avoid using “subsidized” services especially govt schools and govt hospitals. But if you’re overseas, you won’t be using these anyway.

    At the same time, get PR or citizenship of another country if you don’t already have.

    3) At 21 — Renounce SG citizenship. Since you deferred NS to beyond 21, but are now no longer Sinkie … hence no need to serve liao.

    NOTE: Under S’pore law, a Sinkie can only renounce SG citizenship at 21 or above, hence Step 1 to defer NS to beyond 21.

    If you miss Step 1, very difficult liao. Once you reach 15 or 16, forget it.

    I had a classmate in the late-1970s who missed step 1 — the father applied only when he was 13+, almost 14. But the father was a big shot in some MNC, knew a few high-level ministers, and was successful in appeal.

    Moreover, in the 1970s, big MNC investments in S’pore were very important, compared to today. I’m sure a deal was worked out.

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  • pakuqaz:

    age 17+ is too late now. the
    ICA will start to monitor all the
    check point and no way can escape.

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  • Bapak:

    The Ministry of Defence (Mindef) said that while it recognises Benjamin Davis’ achievement in securing a senior contract with English Premier League club Fulham, the 17-year-old Singaporean’s actions are meant to further his own professional career, not national interest.
    =======================================================================

    If the country doesn’t support his interest to develop and hone his skills, how can he contribute to national interest?

    The word “recognise” used by Mindef is too artificial. If you really recognise, you support him all the way. The public is not complaining about being unfair to us, only Mindef own conclusion.

    If they want to support, they have 101 reasons to do so (Patrick Tan), if they don’t want to support, they also have 101 reasons to do so (Ben Davis). Do they really value public complaint? We complain about retaining our CPF money, so please return our money to us. Do they bother? No, they ignore us.

    官字两个口.

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  • Generals don't serve NS:

    Singaporeans are very stupid who didn’t asked why the regular army doesn’t need to serve NS? Actually hor, those wanted to become regular soldier,police, etc should serve NS first. It is only fair as other professional did NS. Doing reservist duties is not equal to NS.

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  • Al:

    Very simple la. The garment Min deaf see him no up la, or haven’t win any medals mah? Such is the Chinese saying 狗眼看人低 , only when that young fellow prove his mettle that u will see these whites fellows come wanting to wear his medal. See how hypocrite these ghosts are.

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  • Shameless idiots:

    Ben, my advise to you is to JUST GO and realise your dream. Play in the EPL, and give your all. When you become a big star in EPL, these wayang Pappies will welcome you back with open arms, maybe even invite you into parliament where they will rush over to shake your hands, and claim credit for your success. Remember what happened to Joseph schooling after he won the Olympics Gold medal ? Never spent a cent on his training, but shamelessly claimed credit for his Olympics success. What a bunch of shameless idiots !!

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  • Are you footing the bill ?:

    @ The parents should take the ministry to court for slander and libel. And hit them with huge damages. 20 million$

    CI challenge on Lim Tean class action suit also never take off. Dont give screw up suggestions.

    Even through crowdfunding , how many willing to chip in $$$ for the case and what are the chances of winning.

    Run road may be better option.

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  • bureaucracy - Meaning ???:

    bureaucracy -
    1. a system of government in which most of the important decisions are taken by state officials . . .
    -
    It also means –
    2. excessively complicated administrative procedure. :(

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  • BullyBully:

    Whether he does his NS or his BMT now, Ben needs to
    be aware tht he’s going to be bullied — physically,
    by his fellow conscripts and his commanders. It’s
    the way of the SAF, going by news and private reports.

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  • Python 5:

    MINDEF is trying to slander and smear this boy’s reputation.
    “Ben Davis has no intention to fulfil NS duties”

    By indirectly accusing this boy of trying to siam/keng, those incompetent FKs in MINDEF think ppl will side them against this boy.

    FCCK YOU MINDEF!!! FCCK YOU PAP!!!

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  • Perspective:

    Since there is much uncertainty over his future contracts, the boy should serve NS first. Otherwise,it could turn out that he would be deferred indefinitely. Besides, the boy has set his sight on professional soccer in Europe;the two-year break to serve NS will be very disruptive to his career. It is a disincentive for him to return to SG for NS. He has a choice between going AWOL or Enlist and serve his NS first. Under the current law, there is no more overseas deferment for NS Enlistment. But they make exceptions for govt scholars and JS. LOL!

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  • But, pap botak lied too:

    Tremendous:
    Not being nosy, BUT 12 years of deferment is a great feat. Why not run a full page in the main papers detailing Patrick’s achievements for Singapore over 12 years of deferment ? Study time will be counted, who among common citizens has the luxury of studying for years without significant output ? If that cannot be done, then it’s another case of pursuing his career interests, isn’t it ? Don’t give the impression that the organization wants to cover up something, please.

    you think the pap is honest?

    ffff. during one of our enlistment, the son of then defence minister PESS1 fitness became pioneer reporter or some such. one of us also applied but rejected. asked why, PESS1 combat. but ffff, what about the defence minister son? we challenge the hen minister to tell us we are wrong. name and ic of applicant supplied on open public review and debate about honesty.

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  • World cup aspirations:

    Don’t the have the SAFSA soccer team anymore? Where talented NS men train full time during their 2-year service stint?

    “Money is not a motivating factor…My motivation comes from playing the game I love. If I wasn’t paid to be a professional footballer, I would willingly play for nothing.”
    - Lionel Messi

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  • Equality Was Stealthily Remove:

    Schooling was given deferment. Why not this guy?

    Also, what about all those White horse shits in NS.

    Vote for change, parents of male citizens and for the future of
    all of your children.

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  • Perspective:

    Equality Was Stealthily Remove:
    Schooling was given deferment. Why not this guy?

    Also, what about all those White horse shits in NS.

    Vote for change, parents of male citizens and for the future of
    all of your children.

    JS was given deferment upon deferment. First time, it was to pursue a dream; the second was to pursue more golds and a career (more dreams). And there seems to be no date set for him to enlist. He already achieved his dream on the first deferment with an Olympic Gold Medal, while others have not gotten their first chance. Before they change the law, a person was given a chance at one deferment if they posted a bond, and were admitted to a foreign university before 16 1/2 yrs old. Now even that chance is taken away from Sinkies. Meanwhile, how many foreigners have been given citizenship without having to do NS when they fall within the enlistment age?

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  • a PG:

    You know for FTs (talent or trash) welcome with open legs or should be open arms by the thousands and thousands, and later become citizens !! They are non-citizens, but one young man has potential talent in sport AND being a SINGAPORE CITIZEN, they just put him aside. He is only asking for a deferment for NS and made an official request. He is not fugitive, taking a sampan and run away & escape from his country, Singapore !!! Perhaps, Ben was born at the wrong period of time under this current rulers!! Schooling asks you to follow your own dream and does want you think is right. Good advice.

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  • Foo: Holly wood stuff.cp3o.pinokio
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