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A challenge to prove an opinion

The manpower minister Tan See Leng told Parliament that 500 people came into Singapore under the intra corporate transfer under CECA in 2020.

Mr X (who thinks that CECA benefits Singapore) used this figure to show that CECA was not responsible for loss of jobs by PMET.

I told Mr. X that other people could have come into Singapore under the CECA agreement through other means – i.e. not under corporate transfers.

He asked me to provide figures to prove my assertion.

I replied to Mr. X – I do not have any intention to convince you to change your mind. You are free to hold on to your opinion.

Mr. X replied – Thank you. I will hold to my opinion.

That close the conversation.

Later, I found the reason for the anomaly – why the number of 500 was so low, when there are several hundred thousand employment pass holders in Singapore, of which 25% came under CECA. I will cover it in a separate post.

I find that some people form a strong opinion and challenge other opinion by asking the other person to prove his assertion.

My reply is – you are free to hold your own opinion. I do not wish to convince you to change it.

 

 

Tan Kin Lian

 

 

yyy
READER COMMENTS BELOW

20 Responses to “A challenge to prove an opinion”

  • PAP cannot be trusted:

    This proves once again that PAP cannot be trusted. It selectively uses statistics to mislead Singaporeans. PAP will never change. It will NEVER be open and transparent. Consequently, there is no REAL accountability in the public sector. And worse, it means elections are not free and fair (also considering there is no free press and basic freedoms in Singapore).

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  • More PAP propaganda:

    Straits Times: Get exam-ready: Mental preparation as important as studying

    “Parents should remind their children that academic performance does determine their self-worth.”

    “Cheap talk” considering private tuition is the norm in local education and good academic results determine if a students gets into a local university. A degree is needed to get a decent paying job in Singapore. Moreover, it is necessary to compete with “cheap” (no CPF) foreign workers brought into Singapore by pro-alien PAP.

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  • oxygen:

    WINDY HAPPY CONTRADICTIONs yet again from 5 yr old toddler demanding silence from others in a social media platform.

    I thought the same fairytale recently demanded “responsible posting” from others in the social media platform.

    Obviously the rules of ethics, integrity and substance apply to others except hypocrites and liars!

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  • oxygen:

    BIOLOGISTS observing animal behavior in the wild is absolutely correct of this – leopards never change its spots but they do climb different trees nearby nearly the same time.

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  • confusing:

    You are already asserting a fact into that statement, how can you still define it as an ‘opinion’?

    The opposition need expect more from you Mr Tan…, or maybe feeding an echo chamber is good enough to run a country.

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  • Voiceless minority:

    Why does the racist tan write such shallow articles which are only good for stupid TR readers. Since separation from Malaysia, malaysia chinese have been given special rights in Singapore at the expense of singaporeans. They were massively recruited and force to take PR and citizenship. Infact all top positions in govt, statutory boards temasek GIC are held by ex malaysian chinese who are the most racists. They only recruit and promote their only countrymen. So they not only tmake away PMET jobs infact all tops positons including MPs and Minsters are ex malysias. Why the racist stupid singapore chinese did not see this as an issue. They are willing to give up rice bowl to malaysian chinese from sub-standard malaysian education system. The uncouth uneducated new chinese immigrants from china has taken over all business in chinatown, food stalls at mrt station and their prostitute women are running mobile stalls in all markets and shopping malls. Why no protect or complaints bec thiese are CHINESE. CECA is basically a racial issuse and nothing to do with losing your jobs to foreigners. Singapore chinese are stupid and have slave mentality. That’s why chinese from all the world,indonesia phillipines,thailand, burma,thailand,china,etc, have taken over their country and jobs. They are only good for grab drivers/deliveries

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  • Fantasy Insiders:

    TKL is partially right. If you don’t want to support your opinion, you can just leave it. But if you want to defend your opinion, you need to come up with some data or references.

    For example, Oxygen has this opinion that none of the OZ parliament is corrupt.

    oxygen: Any member of OZ parliament indicted for corruption offence since that date?

    There are contrary views.
    https://theconversation.com/australians-think-our-politicians-are-corrupt-but-where-is-the-evidence-101822
    “A recent survey by Griffith University has found Australians’ trust in government is sliding. Trust and confidence in government fell in the last year to 46% at the federal and state levels.

    There are also serious concerns about officials and politicians using their positions to benefit themselves or their families (62%), or favouring businesses and individuals in return for political donations or support (56%).

    Worse still, there has been a 9% increase since 2016 in perceptions that federal members of parliament are corrupt (85% saying “some” are corrupt, 18% responding that “most/all” are corrupt).

    See that? 18% responded that most/all federal MPs are corrupt.

    https://theconversation.com/the-sports-rorts-affair-shows-the-need-for-a-proper-federal-icac-with-teeth-122800
    This article mentioned OZ ownself investigate ownselves (sound familiar?). “By referring the sports rorts affair to the prime minister’s department to investigate, the government is essentially conducting an internal investigation.”

    It further suggested that there was no investigation because there wasn’t a proper office for such investigation, i.e., OZ lacks a proper federal corruption investigation office.
    “A former NSW auditor-general has claimed a federal ICAC would have investigated the sports grants scandal.”

    Are there corruptions by the Australia federal MPs? There are many scandals. Note that there is no proper department to investigate them.

    https://theconversation.com/another-day-another-rorts-scandal-this-time-with-car-parks-how-can-we-fix-the-system-163645

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  • oxygen:

    @ Fantasy Insiders

    SILLY 5-yr old toddler farting gases yet again, polluting the earth’s atmosphere with greenhouse gases.

    Fantasy Insiders: For example, Oxygen has this opinion that none of the OZ parliament is corrupt.

    Can’t you see that poser below is a QUESTION inviting substantiation instead of an “asserted fact” of your LYING.

    Oxygen: Any member of OZ parliament indicted for corruption offence since that date?

    You lied wholesale in this thread and were caught pants down REPEATEDLY.

    https://www.tremeritus.net/2021/07/14/a-one-party-state-is-a-better-form-of-government/

    Shame on you!

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  • oxygen:

    @ Fantasy Insider

    WHAT A CONFESSION of your own excited utterance.

    Fantasy Insiders: If you don’t want to support your opinion, you can just leave it.

    You are telling everyone here that it is your privileged right to lie in the social media.

    Anyone disagreeing with you, IN YOUR ASSERTION HERE, must shut up.

    There is a wisdom quote I share with TRE readers – it is correct.

    We are now living in an era where the SMART ONE must keep their silence SO THAT THE STUPID ONE WONT BE OFFENDED!!

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  • liew mun leong must be jailed:

    pap Ljs and pap Cbs are either stupid or too cunning for anyone’s good.

    when cornered about too many ceca ah nehs allowed into small island, these pap Ljs and pap Cbs say, those who ask the question are against FTA.

    ffff.

    WHY so many ceca ah nehs allowed into the small island is the question.

    It is not WHY have FTA.

    the question is NEVER about FTA. it is about too many allowed into small island.

    when pap Ljs elak the question from PSP and instead of answering elak by counter attacking, we know for sure pap is gone case.

    too many ceca ah nehs. too many. it is a number. 1 or 2 under FTA is ok. 100,000 or 200,000 under FTA is not ok.

    it is not about FTA with ceca ah neh land. it is about too many ceca ah nehs allowed into small island.

    when the pap ong Ljs stood in Aljunied, we gave our votes to WP. if this pap ong Lj stands in Aljunied, we challenge him to stand in 2024, we shall see if this pap ong Lj can win or will lose only.

    will he dare to stand in Aljunied? in another angle, will pap clown lky son the husband of temasick ceo dare to stand in Aljunied?

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  • xoxo:

    Readers here are just giving their opinions on

    your written opinions.
    Can they be granted the liberty?

    If not, better to keep your opinions to yourself,Mr Tan.

    Opinions need no proving.
    If so,they are just plain facts,good or bad?

    Its like me opines treating ongoing Pandemic n variants as ENDEMIC IS PLAIN STUPID.
    Its my opinion,i dont need to prove it,do i?

    My opinion may be be right or wrong but thats my opinion against those who say or think otherwise.

    Oh,btw,HAPPY *ENDEMIC* BUT DONT PANIC?

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  • Towards a level playing field:

    Starting a discussion with clearly articulated objectives can help shape the nature of the discussion.

    Examples of these objectives include:

    *Connecting the topic with fundamental concepts and strategies for analysis and reflection.

    *Increasing awareness about the topic by providing information that is not generally addressed in informal discussions.

    *Promoting critical thinking by helping participants to understand the complexity of the issues.

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  • An opinion will always just be an opinion, there is nothing to prove.

    Just like when the late LKY opined that the Malays in high positions may be put in a difficult position during wartime. Did he provide any proof to substantiate his opinion?

    Just like the MTF stating that those vaccinated are less likely to fall seriously ill if bitten by the C19 virus. They did not offer any proof or else it would be a statement of fact, no longer an opinion.

    As it stands currently, it is just an opinion and open to disagreement.

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  • oxygen:

    POLITICAL COWS, LIARS, HYPOCRITES and farters can unleash unsupported, even ridiculous opinions on any issue or matter in their own facebook, nobody cares!

    When flatulence of falsity and/or wild claims is unleased on popularly accessed platforms like TR E, the rest disagreeing HAS EXACTLY THE SAME ACCESS RIGHTS AND ENTITLEMENTS TO CHALLENGE.

    If you can’t handle the challenge, just FIACK OFF!

    So these two commenters are right.

    xoxo: Readers here are just giving their opinions on

    your written opinions.
    Can they be granted the liberty?

    If not, better to keep your opinions to yourself,Mr Tan.

    Towards a level playing field: Starting a discussion with clearly articulated objectives can help shape the nature of the discussion.

    Examples of these objectives include:

    *Connecting the topic with fundamental concepts and strategies for analysis and reflection.

    *Increasing awareness about the topic by providing information that is not generally addressed in informal discussions.

    *Promoting critical thinking by helping participants to understand the complexity of the issues.

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  • Fantasy Insiders:

    There is so much news about corrupted behaviors in your Australia Parliaments and you, a long time citizen of Australia, need to ask for substantiation. So believable.

    It’s a misguided assertion of purity.

    Now you can stop your nauseating assertion of Australian holier-than-thou values and structures.

    oxygen: Can’t you see that poser below is a QUESTION inviting substantiation instead of an “asserted fact” of your LYING.

    Oxygen: Any member of OZ parliament indicted for corruption offence since that date?

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  • TKL fan:

    “I told Mr. X that other people could have come into Singapore under the CECA agreement through other means – i.e. not under corporate transfers.

    He asked me to provide figures to prove my assertion.”

    Mr Tan is very smart here. If Mr X believes that CECA is only about corporate transfers, then Mr X is a big ignorant guy. No point discussing with him further. Save your breath. Smart Mr Tan.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Fantasy Insider

    HOW MANY MILLION TIMES must I remind you of this? Yes, show me proof of just ONE OZ parliamentary member convicted of corruption.

    Yes, just ONE, you dumbass.

    Fantasy Insiders: There is so much news about corrupted behaviors in your Australia Parliaments and you, a long time citizen of Australia, need to ask for substantiation. So believable.

    It’s a misguided assertion of purity.

    Now you can stop your nauseating assertion of Australian holier-than-thou values and structures.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Fantasy Insiders

    AND PLEASE, PLEASE, how many times you were caught LYING in distortion or exaggeration of MATERIAL FACTS in this thread discourse alone?

    A one party state is a better form of government.

    https://www.tremeritus.net/2021/07/14/a-one-party-state-is-a-better-form-of-government/

    You got the ethics and integrity of post commenting lower than the belly of a cobra sn*ke!

    and in this thread, you practically claim entitlement to spread falsehoods denying others from commenting in refutation.

    Your mantra is exactly in offence of this wisdom thinking -

    We live in an era in which the smart ones must be silenced so that the stupid (and may I add here, incorrigible liars, and hypocrites, loudmouths like you) ones would not be offended.

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  • Fantasy Insiders:

    Need me to remind you of what your fellow Australian judges and academics said, which I have already posted above?

    Your Parliament practice internal controlled investigations and there is no way to charge anybody high up for corruption. That’s real corruption. Your fellow Australians can only call it “rort”. You know what that is?

    Your Federal parliamentary members are well protected. Not so for your state parliamentary members. Those people not so elite and powerful. They have to go to court.

    Finally, you admit that you think your Australian politicians are squeaky clean! Continue to live in your imaginary country.

    oxygen: HOW MANY MILLION TIMES must I remind you of this? Yes, show me proof of just ONE OZ parliamentary member convicted of corruption.

    Yes, just ONE, you dumbass.

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  • NotMyProblem:

    To the PAP, an opinion can be turned into a statement. They can POFMA you on your statement, false or otherwise! Even other’s statement can be made to become your statement.

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