Queuing for popular items

People can queue for many hours, sometimes days, for popular products, for example:

a) new product releases
b) admission to primary schools
c) booking of hot properties

Sometimes, the long hours of queuing could lead to disputes among the people in the queue. Sometimes, proxies are used to stand in the queue in payment for a fee by the intended buyer.

Surely, there is a better way to handle the allocation of priority?

Here is my suggestion.

a) Create a website to allow the interested parties to register
b) Authenticate the person and ensure that each eligible person submit only one entry (this is where the NRIC should be used).
c) On the closing date, run a system to allot a queue number to each participant in a fair manner.
d) The priority will be based on the queue number that has been generated.
e) Have a system of auditing that the allocation of the queue number has been done fairly.

Do you agree with this approach?

 

Tan Kin Lian

 

 

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71 Responses to “Queuing for popular items”

  • Financially Speaking:

    If you take a trip to China, it will revealed the enormous progress that Country has made. The bulk of their economy’s transactions are done using their mobile phones &/or booked online. Cash & queue are rarely seen!

    Why is S’pore so backwards?

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  • @Financially Speaking

    I agree absolutely. I don’t carry my wallet anymore since years ago and whenever I leave my home, I just grab my mobile phone.

    To elaborate further on how advance China is today, say if I am driving from Wuhan to Shanghai, I could complete the booking of a Hotel and Restaurant all within the comfort of my car without me having to lift any of my hand off the steering wheel. All the above and more can be done via voice-controlled in-car GPS navigation computer or via a voice-controlled mobile phone.

    And would you believe it if I say I can now complete the payment for my supermarket purchase or Hotel bills simply by ‘swipping’ my face (刷脸)? lol

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  • Sojoürner of Truth:

    TRE Techie: And would you believe it if I say I can now complete the payment for my supermarket purchase or Hotel bills simply by ‘swipping’ my face (刷脸)? lol

    @ Techie

    That also applies to how much toilet paper is dispense to you to ‘swipe’ your ass after you do your business. Exact amount. No more no less. Wonder what happen if one got diarrhea? lol

    Tech: Maybe also true but I haven’t encounter any such devices. Most of the toilets I have used, the papers are free can pull as long as you want. lol

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  • Kok Talker:

    2 jokers think spending a few months in china already know all. china is a huge country and how is that possible given the infrastructure involved in such a complex network.

    To network BJ, SH and GZ already a stretch, the whole country including the remote area is probably just a dream.

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  • Flabbergasted:

    Instead of spending the money on improvements like 5G etc, they chose to enrich the white shit by buying their useless toys, like fighter planes….

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  • Ownself audit ownself:

    “e) Have a system of auditing that the allocation of the queue number has been done fairly.”

    Better don’t believe such audits.

    Even toto can have buggy programs running for a long time without detection.

    Also, what will the poor do? Go beg TKL to help them do the electronic queue?

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  • mike:

    When your phone became more important than you.
    When your info are all in the clouds.
    When the battery left 10%.

    There will be a price to pay when you over depending on what digital technology can bring without necessary cautionary measures.

    A 7-day bank server total shutdown and you know how much of your life will be in intensive care.

    A 48 hour power outrage and you will know how Kyoto Protocol threathens basic survival.

    I don’t have to say more.

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  • PCK:

    Mr Tan, I have high regards for you in Politics. I hope you spend more time to expose all the PAP nonsense to educate the 70% sheep population.

    I have been to some of your talks at Speaker’s Corner and impressed by your thoughts and exposure of PAP’s atrocities.

    Please speak up on CECA, CPF, Minister salaries, POFMA, HDB…etc

    Dont waste your valuable time on petty things about queuing. Thanks with respect.

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  • Harder Truths:

    The problem is not queues. It is the government micromanaging everything. You queue because there are not enough shops selling the products you want.

    In a democratic market-driven economy someone will open a shop – this is common sense, but in $G the pappies will only allow a shop to open once they deem a queue is long enough. Your problems of queuing or not queuing are of no concern to them.

    As one politician said about MRT – squeeze until cannot squeeze. People here however seem to like it.

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  • PRC Insurgents:

    @ To elaborate further on how advance China is today, say if I am driving from Wuhan to Shanghai, I could complete the booking of a Hotel and Restaurant all within the comfort of my car without me having to lift any of my hand off the steering wheel.

    TRE techie = prc citizen ?
    Drive from Wuhan to Shanghai ?
    Some sg i know who have more than 30 years driving experience at least and who can drive from Sg all the way to Penang even before Malaysia current highway, dont even dare or want to drive in nearer country like Indonesia Thailand even places like US Japan or England. Let alone China.

    Mr Tan KL with many years of driving experience drive in China when he last visited ? I dont think so .

    My friend senior engineer with driving license and car who’s assigned to support China plant for about 6 months , 2nd day start work already accident. Luckily its company assigned transport cum company assigned local driver. After he came back and a short gathering. He show pics, quite serious even though only vehicle damaged. He advise never kay kiang and drive in China yourself , damn dangerous. The most funny part when he’s taking picture, both local drivers and other parties try to block him. Only after he clarified he’s not China citizen then and only pics of vehicle and not people faces then he was allowed. The accident happened in same city and not cross state or cross provinces.

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  • @ Kok Talker:

    Agreed.

    U know this Aussie Mr Oxygen although sometimes we disagree with whatever written piece or written comments he posted. He supported his views points with links or examples from other more prominent or recognize sites.

    Similarly we also have Philip Ang with graphs or statistics or whatever data.

    Even CI also has ” cut and paste ” material from elsewhere.

    When G released data, many here questioned. Why lump the datas, datas raise more questions, creative datas , fake datas or datas manipulated…..etc ???

    Yet the above talkers talk alot but dont provide any links nor examples elsewhere.
    Weird ?

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  • Financially Speaking:

    China-haters don’t get it! Don’t kill the messenger but hear the message.

    S’pore isn’t progressing even with the facade of tall buildings & modern illusion of efficiency by using 3rd world labour! You’re being fooled!

    S’pore isn’t progressing as fast as some parts of the world. I would even dare say that S’pore is going backwards in the adoption of science & technology in everyday life.

    Have you ever ask why?

    Have S’pore’s rote-learning mechanisms & lack of an inquisitive mind stopped you from learning the truth?

    @ Kok Talker:
    Your statement of “a dream” just came true the last 10 years for China. Have you even step foot there before you open your trap?

    China’s High Speed Railway already connecting the various cities across China. BJ, SH & GZ already connects with many 2nd & 3rd tier cities across China. Even as far as Urumqi.

    China’s payless system is nation-wide. It even connects the Chinese rural farmer to deliver goods direct to the consumer in the big city in Mandarin orange for CNY through online platforms.

    @ Mike:
    Typical Kiasu S’porean who always ask “What can opposition do for me?” when it comes to election time. All your fears are irrational & serves to scare the weak & the ignorant!

    Phone battery banks are rentable in China & available everywhere. Didn’t you know that?

    If so scared, go hide underneath mommy’s petticoat & don’t ever come out.

    You don’t have anything to say because you’re incapable of venturing out from your comfort zone.

    Kok Talker:
    2 jokers think spending a few months in china already know all. china is a huge country and how is that possible given the infrastructure involved in such a complex network.

    To network BJ, SH and GZ already a stretch, the whole country including the remote area is probably just a dream.

    mike:
    When your phone became more important than you.
    When your info are all in the clouds.
    When the battery left 10%.

    There will be a price to pay when you over depending on what digital technology can bring without necessary cautionary measures.

    A 7-day bank server total shutdown and you know how much of your life will be in intensive care.

    A 48 hour power outrage and you will know how Kyoto Protocol threathens basic survival.

    I don’t have to say more.

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  • patriot of TUMASIK:

    You will be SURPRise if I say it is Human Nature to allow all the Inconvenience and Sufferings to be IMPOSED on fellow human…

    The JOY of seeing someone InCONvenient and Suffering seems to belong to people with a little to a LOT of POWER especially those in Political Power laughing at the Stoopid sheeple who put them in POWER!!!

    When I use to Drive up North and Travel often, Malaysia & HonKong are two to places where Little Power can InCONvenient a LOT!!!

    Immigration CheckPoints at both ends of the Causeway…woe to you if you meet a power craze individual who gets THRILLS in holding up a Q…Not Flipping or Browsing but going over each page with a fine comb seeking for a flea…

    HongKong Immigration is a Nightmare worse if you are a woman travelling alone… the same process as Causeway(not CausewayBay good shopping area) but since it is more OPEN he/she more likely a he will look around while holding your PP and at times have banter with his next counter mate

    Times may have changed and I have not travel much since…but Human Nature seldom Changes even with all the Nurturing…

    Temusik now Singapore???…well an ILLUSION was created but Reality will soon CREEP in and Tan Ahhhhh!!! you are part of a Reality soon to be SEEN and ACCEPTED even though you failed Miserably in the last PE

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  • TruBlu:

    I think QUEING is acceptable.
    Even CERTAIN PRIORITIES IN BUDGET ALLOCATION NEED TO Q.

    I think OSTENTATIOUS ITEMS like JEWELS,F1,FT-SCHOLARSHIT$ ,for example,NEED TO Q AFTER WE HAVE TAKEN CARE OF THE BASIC NEEDS OF OUR OWN SGS.
    TAKE FT-SCHOLARSHITS VS RETAINING SG STUDENTS PSLE RESULTS?!

    You know what i mean UNCLE HENG? You there?

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  • Queue have its merits:

    Queue? Mr Tan KL

    Referring to Huawei fiasco few months back ? Where people call police or others trying to cut queue. Somebody fainted ?

    Queue arouse curiosity. Good for marketing / even biz.
    Just look at all this 林志玄 or 美珍香 bah gua. Queue walking in or book online or mobilel, individual choices.

    As long as properly organised , best provide free wifi so people not so boring.

    Exhibition hall always organised consumer electronic sales. To attract consumers, e.g. 5 sets of big fridge for only $50. People who queue 3 or 4 days way ahead before opening got it. Fair, so far so good, nobody call police.

    Throw $100 or more , sure got people queue for you. Theres such biz or services. E.g. hot property launched.

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  • Remember last GE lesson:

    Stay focus on the objctive.

    How or who more advanced or even if China the most solid the best the number one , what help can it provide in the GE.

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  • So ..... .... ?:

    @ ” China-haters don’t get it! Don’t kill the messenger but hear the message.

    S’pore isn’t progressing even with the facade of tall buildings & modern illusion of efficiency by using 3rd world labour! You’re being fooled!

    S’pore isn’t progressing as fast as some parts of the world. I would even dare say that S’pore is going backwards in the adoption of science & technology in everyday life. ”

    —————————

    So ….. this will direct 69% to vote otherwise ?

    But Taiwan & HK result illustrated otherwise. Many Taiwanese Hongkies visited China. They are so close. The numbers and frequency of visits definitely more than 69%. In fact they are allowed to stay like mainland citizens.

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  • mike:

    Dear @ Financially Speaking,

    Giving the fact that some of us are China Tua-Kee, which i don’t really care, if you lacks convincing statements, i would be happy if you can try your best to excuse yourself from providing titles and name calling just for the pure jest of it.

    I don’t need to show you how much +ve/-ve i view the future of SG based on current situation and over the span of 22 years. But certainly, there is no need for SG to chase after what CN is doing or did to proof what SG should be achieving to be 1st world. Of coz, if it is meant for iron grip on lives of SGreans, i can’t say you are wrong.

    When you cried HSR to Urumqi, what you knew and saw is hardware, what can you tell me about Urumqi besides this? Quick, go check the internet and tell me later, make sure you 爬墙 if you are responding in CN ok? Btw, you been to Urumqi? Or how many cities in Xinjiang had you been?

    Financially Speaking:
    @ Mike:
    Typical Kiasu S’porean who always ask “What can opposition do fo8r me?” when it comes to election time. All your fears are irrational & serves to scare the weak & the ignorant!

    Phone battery banks are rentable in China & available everywhere. Didn’t you know that?

    If so scared, go hide underneath mommy’s petticoat & don’t ever come out.

    You don’t have anything to say because you’re incapable of venturing out from your comfort zone.

    You are damn funny mate, scares are for the ignorant. And your answers are shallow. A little bit of ‘scare’ and you give me ‘so funny one’ answers… walau-eh… POWERBANK… are you kidding me, that is the best answer(solution) you can give me? And you think renting is so amazing? I tell you what, i also can find vending machine dropping power banks for a price less than your 30mins happy ending session in SH lor. So, now you double win your solution, you happy boh!

    Let me just educate you, fear is never about irrationals, and if politician thinks that what people’s fear are irrational, then such politician can never achieve his/her objectives. To overcome fear, it needs courage and “Courage is not the absence of fear; it is acting in spite of it.” HK pple has it, SG yet to acquire it as it is not hurtful enough.

    Go, read my message again, but if you still feel the same, i don’t blame you. Incapable of understanding my message will yield the similar type of response you had for me. And the end result is acted garang and proves shallow depth in your observations.

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  • Bad Boy:

    Renting ? Sharing ?

    As long as family members of deceased not tulan … okay.
    Maybe gov should impose law.

    与时俱进?农村葬礼现共享电子花圈 50元可租7天
    https://3g.163.com/news/article/F364OQLR0001899N.html#adaptation=pc&refer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ So ….. …. ?
    Who cares about the 69% voters? S’pore’s future is a goner if people don’t wake up.

    HK & Taiwan are within China’s sphere of influence, so China would not let them slipped out of their hands.

    S’pore isn’t even critical to China. Their BRI already shows how much China views S’pore in their grand plans. BRI photo taking of world leaders posing together was very glaring at how China views S’pore. Like Urumqi from Beijing. Yet Urumqi is a vital cog in China’s Silk Route railway to Eastern Europe.

    China’s BRI in reality bypassing S’pore’s strategic position by reviving Malacca & Port Klang with East Coast Rail Link to Kota Bahru in Kelantan. Kota Bahru alleviates Laem Chabang port in the Eastern Economic Corridor development (Another BRI project funded by China). The Logistics don’t lie, I see the maps!

    You can argue all you like. No point for me to argue like an old lady with you.

    So ..... .... ?:
    @ ” China-haters don’t get it! Don’t kill the messenger but hear the message.

    S’pore isn’t progressing even with the facade of tall buildings & modern illusion of efficiency by using 3rd world labour! You’re being fooled!

    S’pore isn’t progressing as fast as some parts of the world. I would even dare say that S’pore is going backwards in the adoption of science & technology in everyday life. ”

    —————————
    So ….. this will direct 69% to vote otherwise?

    But Taiwan & HK result illustrated otherwise. Many Taiwanese Hongkies visited China. They are so close. The numbers and frequency of visits definitely more than 69%. In fact they are allowed to stay like mainland citizens.

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ Remember last GE lesson:
    S’pore remains fixated on Artificial population growth & globalisation under the present Status Quo.

    Ask yourself how confident are you under the present circumstances? Will you sacrifice your sons & daughters for the foreigners’ benefit under Population Growth Policy. Do you still believe in Globalisation after Trump cancelled TPP in 2016, enacted US-China Trade War in 2019? When Artificial Intelligence comes around, can S’pore even provide 10 million population with sufficient jobs to feed themselves? The answer to those questions are as good as it comes.

    Donald Trump’s unpredictability is affecting the Global Economy. Even wily old fox Dr Mahathir would rather do business with China than with Trump. Notice Mahathir went ahead with the ECRL first before the S’pore-M’sia HSR which is still pending regarding cost issues.

    Virtually all the ASEAN countries pivot to China except S’pore. And you can think in isolation without considering the economic variables which revolves around the US & China?

    Remember last GE lesson:
    Stay focus on the objctive.

    How or who more advanced or even if China the most solid the best the number one , what help can it provide in the GE.

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ Kok Talker:
    Believe whatever you want? Nobody forces you to accept what we say. Readers can read & make their own decisions.

    TRE Techie had previously said he is from China. If what he says can’t be believed, then there’s nothing more to be said.

    When people want to recce the market where the published information is scarce, they go to the ground to find out.

    Like I say, S’poreans had to be spoon-fed with tables, graphs & statistics like Baby feeding from a bottle. This is the consequence of rote-learning & their dependency on 10-years series Exam Q&A formatted formula for Artificial Success.

    Why do you think that S’pore is having problems in today’s disruptive eco-system whereas 20 years ago, they never faced such problems.

    Oxygen would be the first to tell you that he walked the mosquito infested ground just to find out if the mining companies & their concessions are for real! He don’t just invests in the comfort of an air-conditioned office simply by looking at graphs, charts & data.

    Analysts who did it found themselves hoodwinked such as the Bre-X scandal.

    @ Kok Talker:
    Agreed.

    U know this Aussie Mr Oxygen although sometimes we disagree with whatever written piece or written comments he posted. He supported his views points with links or examples from other more prominent or recognize sites.

    Similarly we also have Philip Ang with graphs or statistics or whatever data.

    Even CI also has ” cut and paste ” material from elsewhere.

    When G released data, many here questioned. Why lump the datas, datas raise more questions, creative datas , fake datas or datas manipulated…..etc ???

    Yet the above talkers talk alot but dont provide any links nor examples elsewhere.
    Weird ?

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  • Gautama said:

    Until kra canal concrete.

    We just have 2 witness.

    This fellow so zhun ?
    Better predict 4d and toto.
    Some kind of self made millionaire ?
    If so why bother to spend time here.
    Trying to be jesus and be saviour to rescue the 69% ? Base on his comments dont appear so.

    Gautama said

    Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

    This go both sides.

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ Mike:
    Mike, Mike! Listen before you write. No one is quarrelling with you over those petty issues which you brought up.

    You are like a little girl screaming on top of your voice at what you don’t understand nor like. Can I call you Millie instead of Mike?

    China isn’t the issue here, S’pore is! S’pore can’t go on pretending like it is some 1st world economy, yet paying 3rd world wages. S’pore can’t go on using population growth policies as if it is a solution, not a problem.

    Infrastructural Spending to boost GDP growth but at whose expense. Jewel @ Changi took less than a year to reveal it’s white colour & the elephant shape. The list could be long!

    Electricity generators including Hyflux took the govt’s cue to expand electricity capacity but actual demand was only 48% of the expanded capacity. Yet the retail pricing by SP Power (monopoly buyer, monopoly retailer) kept increasing tariffs to users while wholesalers are plummeted by low LNG gas & excess capacity. Hyflux couldn’t sustain their excessive debt load & folded. Who borne the Hyflux’s bankruptcy? Olivia Lum? or the Debt holders?

    The question (to you, Millie) is how long can S’pore persist with Malinvestments & questionable ROI into the future.

    Can the Population Growth Policy be used to cover the hidden financial issues at hand. Do you believe 10 million population target can be achieved with Artificial Intelligence looming & Globalisation blown to bits by US/China Trade disputes.

    Millie, your arguments are out of place with your loud screaming amid hissy fits. Get a grip of your panties before you wet yourself.

    mike: I don’t need to show you how much +ve/-ve i view the future of SG based on current situation and over the span of 22 years. But certainly, there is no need for SG to chase after what CN is doing or did to proof what SG should be achieving to be 1st world. Of coz, if it is meant for iron grip on lives of SGreans, i can’t say you are wrong.

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  • @PRC Insurgents

    Yes, I did drive (with a co-driver, my wife) from Wuhan to GuangZhou and to ShangHai and back (each round trip 3500 KM approx) and I drive around with hundreds of 2 wheelers PMDs (they have no driving license and insurance) everyday in the city I reside in. Also, I did drive from Singapore to Perak and back back in the good old days when the KL expressway was not even built.

    Come CNY, my brothers in law will be driving back from ShangHai and GuangZhou to Wuhan (yearly basis) and then returning to their respective city shortly. Its a common occurence during CNY where millions take to the highway and do cross province, nothing really scary about that. Besides, its faster because the highways can go up to 130 KM/H.

    You are not wrong to say even seasoned drivers dare not take to the roads in China, which is why I did say in the past in other threads that compared to China, the roads in Singapore is so so so much safer and local drivers are so so so pampered to the extent that they can’t even handle a few PMDs and have to cry father cry mother.

    I guess some people just adapt and learn quickly while others don’t.

    BTW, if you intent to test your driving skills, I suggest you try driving up and down Zhang Jia Jie and experience the 10 deadly turns. lol

    @ Kok Talker

    Have you ever been to China in the last 5 years?

    @Financially Speaking

    A little correction if I may. I am not FROM China, I an IN China. lol

    .

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  • mike:

    Dear @ Finanical Speaking,

    So funny one, what other names you can invent and create?
    For a little girl Millie’s words to drive you nuts and crazy, you are enjoying the little lesson you are getting, don’t you?

    You talk about 1B1R as if you knows a lot
    You talk about 10 million population as if you run the economy
    You talk about AI as if you are the hands behind
    You talk about Hyflux and the end of her cozy love with the gahmen as if you where from the inside
    When you run out of words, you say China not the issue here

    What all those you said any original or new?

    You said HSR to Urumqi, have you BEEN THERE? You are freakishly native.
    I am ASKING you how much HSR benefits Urumqi? Or benefits XinJiang? Who really did benefit for such construction? Financially speaking, you know nuts about Financial or Financially.

    You use woman, little girl, old lady as a metaphors to belittle, it shows your underlying views on other gender. Try to be a better person, little bro.

    Bro, your opponents brings out the best and worse of you, and so far, you had displayed the later.

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ TRE Techie:
    No worries. From within or in China isn’t the matter. The most important fact is the truth from someone who can relate their China experience!

    So long as you tell those China-haters what they’re missing out reading fake & misleading news from Mainstream Mass Media thinking they’re better off in S’pore when it’s not!

    The pace of China’s economic progress & use of technology is frightening. Compared to China, S’pore is literally standing still or worse, going backwards!

    TRE Techie: @Financially Speaking

    A little correction if I may. I am not FROM China, I an IN China. lol

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ Millie (Mike):
    You can’t handle the truth! And that’s the truth!

    You can’t even chain together my line of reasoning & my pertinent arguments to rebut me logically. And I don’t understand any of your incoherent writings (rantings & ravings). You’re illogical!

    So what’s your point? If you don’t believe me, say so! But prove me wrong, just don’t attack the messenger!

    Aren’t you like a little girl screaming on top of your voice throwing about your dolls across the room because I told you off “nicely”!

    Do it man-to-man in arguments, Mike. Don’t do hissy fits & gossips like a girl if you don’t want to be called Millie!

    Whether I have been to Urumqi or not isn’t important nor relevant. Same for 1B1R, 10 million population, AI, Hyflux – you’re nitpicking against the messenger, not even understanding the coherent message. Aren’t you confused?

    Whether it is original, new or spicy flavour, you are not the judge of it, the readers can form their own opinion. You think you’re the MasterChef judge, meh?

    “Financially speaking, you know nuts about Financial or Financially.” Ha-ha-ha!

    But that’s your personal opinion! And it shows your IB side. When you can’t outwit your opponent, attack personally like a little girl scratching like a cat, trying to pull out hair. Isn’t that the case, Millie!

    Again, I rebut this back to you, “you talk as if you know me a lot?” Do you, Millie?

    Millie, Millie, I think it’s your time of the month!

    mike: You talk about 1B1R as if you knows a lot
    You talk about 10 million population as if you run the economy
    You talk about AI as if you are the hands behind
    You talk about Hyflux and the end of her cozy love with the gahmen as if you where from the inside
    When you run out of words, you say China not the issue here

    What all those you said any original or new?

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  • Partial truth?:

    Queue ?

    Normal . China also queue.

    Whats the ruckus?

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  • BK:

    I would just share another perspective of online payment. The technology is easily available. The question is political. How far and how much u want this payment system to be embedded in society?

    China as an authoritarian regime would welcome such a move as it centralizes control. India has implemented electronic money because they need the taxes that are leaked or squirreled away by cash. For the same reason as India, Europe and US will start to implement such systems, as pension problems exacerbate.

    How much money is actually hidden? Based on verifiable global assets vs liabilities, the estimate is 8%. But in developing countries such estimates can be as high as 30 to 50%. In China, given the instincts of Chinese, u can expect this to be high.

    But as governments implement such systems, ppl will find other ways to squirrel their money. It is the nature of humans. And as global uncertainties rise, the USD dollar is the default currency ppl go to, 70% of USD dollar is outside US.

    5G is such an interesting technology. But this is fraught with civil liberties, about control and freedom, and the balance between conveniences and your individuality. These questions will increasingly become important, as humans beings, not as Chinese, Americans etc, governments have their own nature, which is ultimately control and parochial nationalism.

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  • mike:

    @ BK
    Thank you for providing the different perspective.

    @ Financially Speaking
    For anyone you can’t breakthrough, it is an IB to you. Feel so sorry for your deeply programmed DNA.

    What messages as messenger are you providing, my little bro?
    Man-to-man, you gangster ah? Call any names you like and it only reflects your inner self, i have to admit that it is so hard for me to bring myself down to your level.

    So funny one, now you play messenger role. And creatively, you are bringing master chef, what message now you want to bring? You are a cook or still a messenger? Make up your mind, or you are a cook that give messages?

    I don’t think i knows you a lot, and i don’t need to. It is you who show us who you are: sometime a messenger, sometime a cook, sometime belittle woman, old lady and little girl, sometime talked like knows CN inside out.

    Correct or co-wrong?

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ Partial truth:
    In China, you don’t have to queue. You can sit down & be served hot tea while you wait. Hasn’t S’poreans taken to HaiDiLao format in S’pore when it is already so common in China?

    Otherwise, your mobile phone would be notified when your table is ready. And the service staff would greet your presence loudly!

    The ruckus is that 70% S’poreans are mountain tortoises! Are you one?

    Partial truth?:
    Queue ?

    Normal . China also queue.

    Whats the ruckus?

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ Millie:
    At least BK provided his arguments with facts & his thought processes with CLARITY. Not necessarily do I agree with his statements & with his arguments though! To each his own I supposed!

    If you’re 1% of BK, I would called you Mike. But @ 0% substance & arguing like a little girl calling people names & writing rubbish, you’re Millie!

    Besides thanking BK, can you elaborate what he wrote? Or you’re using him as a cover for your own inadequacies.

    Arguments for arguing sake don’t make you a real man.

    Likewise, going into gangsterism when I just told you to man up & rebut using facts & knowledge instead of written diarrhoea in the way you write, it was a compliment.

    Honestly, I can’t understand your stuff that you’re writing. It is all over the place. You have no clarity in the way you write.

    This is the last time I will rebut your nonsense. You need to improve the way you write because you’re literally spurting out garbage & literary diarrhoea. Go see a linguist!

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  • mike:

    @ Financially Speaking

    So funny one, you really think that i report to you? You can try that in your MNC co-workers. And you really think i care what name or names you implant on others or me? And you think i am here to get national day award from you? Or so i can be your member and rub shoulders?

    I am really surprised that you understood what BK was saying, huh?

    BK said for himself and his perspective, but that was not the full amount i am implying to you. I thank him for his perspective, not thanking him for helping you to understand.

    Do i really care i am a man or not, or being one or not just by your words? Grow up my little bro.

    I really made you sick, don’t you agree? I made you low to reveal your gangster bits. I made you give up at the end of the day. You tua-kee, only you know best lah. I promise to engage you whenever i felt there is nonsense coming from your MNC brain. But i cannot promise you every subjects here i will be interested.

    See you later mate.

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  • Sojoürner of Truth:

    It’s time for a reality check. For those of us of a certain age, we have gradually embraced the new technology/the new ways of doing electronic business. While the Internet, as noted, has reduced the distance and time to get important work done, the shame of it all is that highly creative people have adapted “this magic” for nefarious purposes.

    China has been busy creating a cashless society, where people can pay for so many things now with just a swipe of their cellphones — including donations to beggars — or even buy stuff at vending machines with just facial recognition, and India is trying to follow suit.”

    Indians and Chinese need to hope that rupees and renminbi don’t soon become global currencies, easily spendable in Western societies, because those masses of digitized data would allow Eastern European and Balkan hackers to rip off hundreds of millions of their people as easily as they rip off those who use or used to use a mark, a yen, a buck or a pound.

    Our means of ensuring the safety of all that data hasn’t kept pace with the march to fully digitize societies. Then there’s the rise of ersatz-currencies, such as bitcoin or litecoins and their like, which facilitate anonymous transactions which in turn support illicit activities focused on leveraging stolen personal data.

    I’ve heard said that WWIII will no longer be via thermonuclear attacks but by cyberattacks. Investment in cybersecurity and counter-cyberespionage and attacks is paramount to the future security of any nation state.

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  • “China has been busy creating a cashless society, where people can pay for so many things now with just a swipe of their cellphones — including donations to beggars — or even buy stuff at vending machines with just facial recognition, and India is trying to follow suit.”

    Actually beggers also carry mobile phones and you can pay them via Alipay or Wechat. lol

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ Sojorner of Truth:
    The biggest problem is the US$ weaponization after 2010 using financial data to search & imposed financial sanctions against countries deemed enemies against the US cause. Under Trump, it has become his weapon of choice against his ‘perceived’ enemies.

    FATCA (Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act) of 2010 was actually passed under the Obama Administration. The US was already one of the few countries to impose taxation over their US citizen’s world-wide income sources. Majority of countries are on the territorial taxation basis.

    FATCA caused many overseas US citizens to renounce their US Citizenship. Foreign banks opted to close US citizens’ bank accounts instead of compliance to the FATCA legislation.

    Virtually all Global banks were forced to provide clients details & their banking transactional data to the US security & taxation agencies to scan for any anti-US terrorism activities but mainly also to seek out US tax evaders.

    The rise of Cryptocurrencies was due to FATCA
    & the growing US financial surveillance over global transactions. But Cryptocurrencies brings it’s own problems of cyberattacks, theft by hacking clients details & outright fraud by the Cryptocurrencies promoters themselves.

    And when the US has weaponised the US$ against US enemy of the state. It made many countries uncomfortable.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/uncle-sam-just-used-its-financial-nuclear-weapon-again

    But the US$ weaponization is not without consequences nor repurcussions. BRICS economies & many others are coming out with their own methods of trade settlement without using US$.

    We’re actually seeing the possible unwinding of US$ Reserve Currency Status over time. Other economies are exploring their own trade settlement mechanism which might include gold-backed securities or govt backed Cryptocurrencies.

    If the US$ Reserve Currency Status goes, we’ll see the waterfall decline of the US Economic power. Already, much of the US Industrial & Manufacturing base have been relocated to the East.

    The US is relying on Financial Engineering & Financialization Activities to bring forward future growth today. And using lots of leverage (Hedge Funds, Private Equity, Collateralised Loan Obligations [CLO],
    Commercial Mortgage-Backed Securities, etc) in the process.

    Sojoürner of Truth: I’ve heard said that WWIII will no longer be via thermonuclear attacks but by cyberattacks. Investment in cybersecurity and counter-cyberespionage and attacks is paramount to the future security of any nation state.

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  • Sojoürner of Truth:

    TRE Techie:
    Actually beggers also carry mobile phones and you can pay them via Alipay or Wechat. lol

    Ya, I know. That’s why in Shanghai, near tourist area, I hide my I-phone. Only worried if I meet one super-savvy beggar; take my face and use facial recognition technology? I say my face not in China data bank so he can’t get his money. He says no problem, any one steps into China already particulars captured. How? lol

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  • @Sojoürner of Truth

    China actually has full Facial Recognisation Systems installed everywhere, including the airports and customs. The moment you present your passport for clearance, your face already captured liao.

    Scarry bo? lol

    .

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  • Sojoürner of Truth:

    Financially Speaking: ut the US$ weaponization is not without consequences nor repurcussions. BRICS economies & many others are coming out with their own methods of trade settlement without using US$.

    @ Financially Speaking
    Transnational capitalism rules the world. And it’s super-government run amok. It’s the force behind the epidemic of social austerity and corporate deregulation, endless (trade)wars and constant surveillance of restive populations. Heads of state are mere brokers, competing for Super Government’s business, outbidding each other to offer the most natural resources, the most legal immunity, the most generous corporate welfare. They offer up their increasingly desperate human labor pools, who are forced to work longer and longer for less and less.

    China is slowly moving towards a freer market and US is drifting in the other direction, becoming more oligopolistic. Though is still the major power on the planet, however it is quickly evolving into a world of near equals when it comes to economic power and influence. Other regions are making their presence felt including BRICS.

    Keep in mind that China’s economy is officially almost the size of the US, and larger than the other three BRIC economies, Brazil, India and Russia, combined.

    They are vastly different in policies and approaches. Brazil has had high population growth in the past, but has brought it down to about .9% per year It suffers from 6.15% inflation and interest rates of around 8.5%. The poor have been demonstrating in Rio and elsewhere due to high prices of bus and subway fares. Brazil also has a long history of high inflation.

    But it has gotten population growth down a lot, it is less densely populated than the US, and there is still promise to this richly endowed country.

    India, with its 1.4% population growth rate is a total basket case. We can argue about flow of capital to or from the country. But the poor in India are on the ropes. And the infrastructure doesn’t work.

    China adopt a one-child policy to control population growth, which is now at about .5%. That’s not ideal, but the lower population growth has enabled the China economy to explode. China now produces more autos than the US.

    In conclusion, financial markets and especially the stock market have become completely divorced from their original purposes of capital accumulation and risk sharing. Now they are just high-speed casinos, with most of the players doing most of their gambling with OTHER people’s money.

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ Sojorner of Truth:
    Last year’s Amazon rainforest fire came about coincidentally during the height of the US-China trade dispute when both began imposing trade tariffs on each other’s products.

    Was it climate change or burning of forest for eventual cultivation of soy products, we’ll never know for sure but the coincidence is remarkable.

    When China began to outsource for Soy Beans after imposing tariffs on US agricultural imports including Soy Beans. The country with the biggest potential of increasing Soy Beans export to China was Brazil followed by Argentina.

    And China is the biggest Importer of Soy Beans in the World. In a gist, Trump seemed to have shot himself on the foot!
    https://oec.world/en/profile/hs92/1201/

    Sojoürner of Truth: But it [Brazil] has gotten population growth down a lot, it is less densely populated than the US, and there is still promise to this richly endowed country.

    The Indian Mentality is difficult to understand & their cultural instinct distinctly Tribal & Inward Looking. Also, there is a Tradition & Cultural Mechanism of Caste System in India which holds back collaboration & mass deployment of resources in a modern economy. This alone tells one the economic potential of India!

    Historically, India had been a ‘Black Hole’ for Foreign Investors. It has not changed since. The terms “Bandits” & “Thugs” originated from India – tell you a lot about India.

    S’pore SWFs & GLCs investing in India came about with CECA. It was a ‘Silent’ Reciprocal Trade Agreement which no one to date outside of the govt realm knows the full details.

    Jumabloy family Investments in India (ex-Ascott owners) & Amaravati City are classic examples of India Investments which went sour. SingTel (Bharti Airtel), Ascendas-Singbridge, Sembawang (Amaravati City), etc are examples of GLCs involvement into a historically difficult Investor Unfriendly country.

    Sojoürner of Truth: India, with its 1.4% population growth rate is a total basket case. We can argue about flow of capital to or from the country. But the poor in India are on the ropes. And the infrastructure doesn’t work.

    Actually China’s one-child policy has been revoked some time back. It is now allowable to have a two-child family. Told to me straight from a Chinese Citizen’s mouth recently.

    Sojoürner of Truth: China adopt a one-child policy…

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  • Bapak:

    Same here in SG. When they said through ground investigation, they are referring to watching the CCTV recordings. Even the uncles at coffee shops also know.

    TRE Techie:
    @Sojoürner of Truth

    China actually has full Facial Recognisation Systems installed everywhere, including the airports and customs. The moment you present your passport for clearance, your face already captured liao.

    Scarry bo? lol

    .

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  • the full force of democracy:

    //S’pore SWFs & GLCs investing in India came about with CECA. It was a ‘Silent’ Reciprocal Trade Agreement which no one to date outside of the govt realm knows the full details.//

    our white idiots like daft sinkies to be kuai kuai diam diam and listen (not trained to be good in much tok & expressing but trained to do much), but their top white idiots admire all the slick talkers and presenters (show and tell) until blur blur ? have you seen a lot of ‘good lawyers’ (expressive) coming from the culture of south asians from the region ?

    our white idiots not subject to the full force of democracy (ours 151th standard allow the white idiots an easy comfortable stroll?) trying to negotiate (thinking it is a good deal) with a country which is constantly subject to the full force of democracy and able to withstand ‘unruly’ demonstrations / protests ?

    anyone thinks the other side would sign KOKA if the other side could not see clearly how they would net benefit from the whole agreement knowing that sinkie land is more of a 151th standard sterile environment (chicken feet to deal with) and their own more exciting (aka can be uncertain and chaotic environment (more difficult for kuai kuai daft sinkies to navigate) ?

    see how our GY could perform over there lor plus even many of their own compatriots ?

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2049293/too-much-politics-singapores-george-yeo-walks-out-indias-nalanda

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  • benefiting the most:

    //In conclusion, financial markets and especially the stock market have become completely divorced from their original purposes of capital accumulation and risk sharing. Now they are just high-speed casinos, with most of the players doing most of their gambling with OTHER people’s money.//

    clap clap clap.

    well, how to undo (or slowly undo then) this negative externality if the people (top percentile be it entreprenuers or politicians influencing or making all the key decisions respectively) are the ones with the most vested interest and may / would like to perpetuate this structure as they are ones benefiting the most from this situation ?

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  • surveillance cameras:

    //Indians and Chinese need to hope that rupees and renminbi don’t soon become global currencies, easily spendable in Western societies, because those masses of digitized data would allow Eastern European and Balkan hackers to rip off hundreds of millions of their people as easily as they rip off those who use or used to use a mark, a yen, a buck or a pound.//

    use to be cases where thief or robbers had to physically track your movement & rob someone (either their bag, wallet or suitcase ?)- now even more difficult with surveillance cameras in most places ?

    now, digital and online hor (technology better right and improve our lives right), money can be swiped clean in one go (or few go’s) by anyone with a connection (can be in a forest or village in some secluded place ??) ? hacking and sharing with digital info with just with an fake email or thumb drives ?

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  • Partial truth?:

    @ In China, you don’t have to queue.

    Not true. Still have queue. Not across all industries and services but still have queue depending the type of products , type of services.

    Anyway i m just responding to Mr Tan Kin Lian and his article.

    Mountain Tortoises ? Maybe, i cannot know everything. Even some places in sg i also dont know.

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  • Sojoürner of Truth:

    Financially Speaking: Actually China’s one-child policy has been revoked some time back. It is now allowable to have a two-child family. Told to me straight from a Chinese Citizen’s mouth recently.

    @ Financially Speaking
    China’s population control policy can can critiqued in terms of whether it was needed or how ethically it was implemented. But whether it occurs organically or through some type of government policy, control of population is critical, for several reasons – Among the challenges faced by China, degradation of its arable land and depletion of critical soil nutrients is the most severe.

    Population growth is only good if you have good jobs, infrastructure and schooling to support it. The one child policy was initiated by Deng Xiaoping in 1979. To see its effects, one should compare China with India which had no such policy.

    China’s use of sex-selection abortion and putting girl babies up for adoption means that China has selected another approach to population control. In parts of China, this is a large proportion. By having a male-majority sex ratio, a certain % of the population will not reproduce. I have a Chinese friend. He has a great job and lives in a good size city. He is college educated and speaks fluent English. He is almost 40 and never had a date. He’s good-looking and personable but not rich. There is an entire generation of men who simply will never father children.

    I have also listened to young Chinese millennials and they tell a story that differs markedly. Too many of the young couples have spoken of their decision to remain childless as a choice. The future is truly frightening if China goes the way of Singapore’s 2-child policy in the sixties. See what happens to us today?

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  • @Sojoürner of Truth & Financially Speaking

    China used to have the 1 child policy but that has been revoked since 2018, if I am not wrong with the dates.

    In its originality, the past 1 child policy is not really a dead-stick policy where you die die cannot have more than 1 child. There are exceptions for couples whose 1st born is a female, i.e. they can have a 2nd child after a few years.

    And for those who are better off, they can still have a 2nd child within the barring period, as long as they pay a fine of about RMB 10,000 (SGD 2000 approx). Back then, poorer villagers who die die must have a male (to carry on the bloodline) will simply not register the birth of any females, resulting in these female babies not having an “account” (户口) and therefore “stateless”, cannot go to school, cannot marry, have no legal rights, etc.

    As a result, there were many unregistered births with millions of females not having an “account”, creating a lot of social problems.

    During that period before Chairman Xi (it was Wu then when I went to China), these grown up unregistered females could buy a LEGIT “account” if they had some money (RMB 10,000 to 50,000 depending on which city the “account” would be located) as corruption during that period was rampant. Such “account” was also available to non-PRCs who could afford the cash, for example fugitives from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, etc — as long as one is Chinese (race). If I had bought one “account” then, it would have cost me about SGD 10,000.

    Anyway, subsequently the Chinese authorities realised that this policy cannot be prolonged and coupled with the aging problems, decided to do a nationwide registration of these females without “an account” and subsequently allowed MOST of its citizens to have a 2nd child.

    The new 2 child policy was initially restricted to commoners (non civil servants) only but was later extended to ALL its citizens (since end 2019). During the initial period, civil servants had to apply for approval before they can have a 2nd child.

    Nowadays, as far as I understand, you can have an entire football team with reserves as long as you can afford to. lol

    .

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  • Financially Speaking:

    @ TRE Techie:
    Many thanks for your illuminating view on China’s population policy. It was very enlightening!

    There are a great number of S’poreans who are still harbouring the wrong impression about China. It’s time to reflect & change their long term views imposed by *hint* skewed media reporting & poor impression of China Nationals in S’pore. The truth is that China is so big, that they not necessarily are representative over the whole China.

    Yes, there are still elements of control in China but compared to S’pore, China operates relatively freely in terms of economic freedom. They don’t have the type of strict govt policy & control rigidities we have in S’pore.

    This is in direct contradiction to the conventional thinking many people outside of China may have on Communist China. Of their eco-system of strictly State-owned Enterprises & crony capitalism we normally associate with their economy. But economic enterprises are very vibrant in China.

    China has already captured all the low lying fruits of economic development (Infrastructure like mass housing, MRT & High Speed Rail, roads & bridges, etc). It was a remarkable fear & tremendous achievement for them.

    And they had done it within 2-3 decades. S’pore took over 5 decades & we’re still not done with Infrastructural Spending. Why?

    Also, China’s Infrastructural Spending didn’t caused an exponential rise in the Cost of Living unlike S’pore.

    You have to wonder whose paying the bill for all those Infrastructural Spending in S’pore?

    They have got their educational mechanism right – focusing on STEM subjects. Although China is still a rote-learning system but they are heading in the right direction.

    The answer is mass deployment of human capital resources unlike S’pore whose govt still stubbornly adheres to their Meritocracy Policy – a form of educational quota. And the use of cheap foreigners to fill in the gaps.

    We should compare ourselves with the best in class & strived to emulate them. China did it in the 1980s & look where are they now.

    Unfortunately, the S’pore govt is seemingly stuck in a rut forever patting themselves on the back complimenting themselves for a job well done. “Own self praise own self” syndrome.

    TRE Techie: Nowadays, as far as I understand, you can have an entire football team with reserves as long as you can afford to. lol

    .

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  • Financially Speaking:

    Should read “It was a remarkable *feat & tremendous achievement for them.

    Financially Speaking: It was a remarkable fear & tremendous achievement for them.

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  • to finance the game:

    //And they had done it within 2-3 decades. S’pore took over 5 decades & we’re still not done with Infrastructural Spending. Why?//

    no good primary and secondary industries lar (mostly imported and FDIs) ? so a big part comes from recycling real estate and infrastructural projects (tearing, rebuilding, shifting, upgrades and then tear down and rebuild, ad infinitum….) supported by an ever increasing (6.9m or 10m policy) to finance the game ?

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  • Sojoürner of Truth:

    @ Techie
    @ Financially Speaking

    Thanks to Techie. Nothing beats ‘to hear something straight from the horse’s mouth’ lol

    Ecological problems (incl. food contamination, and rapidly increasing numbers of highly polluting power plants) are also multiplying in China, except that the latter has the luxury of a much larger area and a more temperate climate.

    China is doing just fine. I think the under-population is due to the migration of the youth from China to the west especially the US and to Australia and New Zealand and not so much due to the one child policy. China is still the most populated country in the world. While the fertility rate in China is way below replacement, its population is still increasing by 6-7 million a year.

    The slow growth in China’s population is directly responsible for its continuing economic growth. China’s major cities are already of comparable wealth to those in developed countries, although the countryside is still lagging behind. Recall the famous Chinese saying? Cross a river by feeling for the stones. This is open-mindedness. They study how the Soviet collapsed and how the US will follow next. Singapore’s population policy under scrutiny also.

    China has over taken India economically because India as the second most populated country in the world . But a time of reckoning is coming for both countries. A nation can’t increase its population by 800 million in a matter of decades without paying a horrible price. Same goes for Singapore.

    Incomes, wealth and life expectancy in the United States have stagnated for much of the population, contributing to an angry national mood and exacerbating political divisions. The result is a semi-dysfunctional government that is eroding many of the country’s largest advantages over China. The United States is skimping on the investments like education, science and infrastructure that helped make it the world’s great power.
    In short, it’s easy to win a race when your opponent runs backward.

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  • military or policing work:

    //A nation can’t increase its population by 800 million in a matter of decades without paying a horrible price. Same goes for Singapore.//

    logically lesser people, more resources better (easier to share) than more people, relative lesser resources ?

    but the top percentile of the human value chain need both natural / raw resources and more human resources (more more more) to exploit (either to work to value add as employees or more to protect them and their interest via military or policing work) ???

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  • oxygen:

    ECONOMY IS NOT BIOLOGY, you can’t grow population to grow GDP sustainably – except pushing up spending on social amenities and infrastructural support. IN ITSELF, it adds nothing to production or real productive capacity unless augmented by positive economic initiatives.

    The result? Slow modest GDP growth, congestion, rising costs of living. It is a mirage of growth of falling living standards which is already happening in LEE-jiapore.

    SUCH URBANISATION IS ONLY GOOD IN EARLY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT CYCLE. We have long past this. Even China cannot do it forever without adding to massive white elephants and ghosts cities.

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  • mike:

    Financially Speaking:
    There are a great number of S’poreans who are still harbouring the wrong impression about China. It’s time to reflect & change their long term views imposed by *hint* skewed media reporting & poor impression of China Nationals in S’pore. The truth is that China is so big, that they not necessarily are representative over the whole China.

    This observation comes at 15years delayed and 10years late. Are you able to provide prediction 10 years forward? Or are you pushing already naive and stupid SGrean into a burning hall where most already at the exit or exited.

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  • mike:

    Financially Speaking:
    Yes, there are still elements of control in China but compared to S’pore, China operates relatively freely in terms of economic freedom. They don’t have the type of strict govt policy & control rigidities we have in S’pore.

    Great observation! That is call Rule by Law and where us economic freedom when developers are not allowed to cut price by 50%? So funny one, my little brother. Economy freedom for Jack Ma too? Now indeed he is freedom-ed. Economy freedom for company to include CCP charter in their business? Economy freedom where CCP’s 1% share can control the company’s direction?

    Bro, you must be telling a joke?

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  • mike:

    Financially Speaking:
    This is in direct contradiction to the conventional thinking many people outside of China may have on Communist China. Of their eco-system of strictly State-owned Enterprises & crony capitalism we normally associate with their economy. But economic enterprises are very vibrant in China.

    That is indeed a contradiction! Everyone dancing with their pants down is also very vibrant indeed. When you party, look out for the exit. A country where today is economy, and tomorrow bashed up Japanese; today is economy and tomorrow call to trash the Korean business, is indeed vibrant.

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  • mike:

    Financially Speaking:
    Also, China’s Infrastructural Spending didn’t caused an exponential rise in the Cost of Living unlike S’pore.

    You have to wonder whose paying the bill for all those Infrastructural Spending in S’pore?

    Muah..hahaha… let’s wait and see. Financially speaking, u r funny financially.

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  • @Financially Speaking

    Having been in China for more than 10 years, my (general, non-political) take on China is that it is a country that has been misunderstood by many.

    China in fact, takes its care of its citizens very well and when it comes to internationl incident, it will spare no efforts to get their citizens home. China also will NEVER allow its citizens to be extradicted to ANY country.

    Poorer citizens can seek aid from thousands of NGOs and welfare groups and they do get help. Its not difficult in China to raise millions in a day if one genuine has an illness that requires immediate and expensive medical attention. The hospitals will even waive all charges. You just need to know who and where to go to. Thedre will be some who fall through the cracks and Xi has vowed to not allow any through nemerous policies to help the poor.

    Of course many will read about its supposed ISD-style detention of its own people (XinJiang?), but remember that China is a huge country and there are extremist aplenty who do commit henious crimes like bombing railways, attacking members of public, etc. These extremist must be taken to task, and they have been.

    Once these extremist are arrested, they cry father and cry mother claiming innocence then the international media started to cry foul. But before these media started writing shit, did they bother understanding what actually happened?

    The police are not secret society members (although they used to be in the past) and they don’t go around the city arresting Tom, Dick and Harry. So by common sense logic, if one is not guilty of an offence, then one should not be arrested at all, right?

    The police in China is, in my opinion and experience, mush more professional and approachable. They do not go arouond arresting anyone without concrete evidence and once they do, the accused is mostly 101% guilty.

    Maybe during the process, some innocent ones may be locked up, but these mistakes are now mostly corrected under Xi and the authorities have been recorded to have paid millions in compensation for those wrongly incarcerated.

    China now under Xi has changed alot, mostly for the better although some policies are debatable.

    For a middle income person with some savings, China is much more livable and affordsable than Singapore.

    To put things in perspective, if I had a 4-room flat in Tampinese in the 90s, I could sell it off and buy a landed semi-d in China c/w a BMW, both paid in full. Petrol price in the 90s was less than SGD 1 a gallon, now its about SGD 1.20 a gallon.

    Most Singaporeans are so so so pampered that they swallow bait, hook and sinker from the MSM without actually opening their eyes and ears to the things and happenings around them.

    My advise for those who think Singapore is more advance and livible than China, book a flight and go live in China and travel around, you will realise that other than missing the local dishes like Nasi Lemak and Mutton soup, everything China is better than Singapore.

    Even your neighbours are helpful and friendlier than those you find back in Singapore. In Singapore, maybe if we hear a neighbour crying rape, we call the police (and stay at home) BUT in China, we will whacked the assailant then call the police. lol

    .

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  • Sojoürner of Truth:

    @ Techie
    Having recently traveled extensively to China and visiting
    some large cities such as Beijing, Nanjing, Shenzhen as well
    as smaller cities and cultural sites and was as impressed
    by their remarkable advances. Their bullet trains speeding at a smooth and comfortable 300 plus km/h are but a dream to American travelers not to speak of clean well organized cities and futuristic airports.

    I cite these observations of Chinese advances not to denigrate American know-how but to express frustration at US Trump’s impotence. China’s Xi has always struck me is his patient, long-term view, while Americans focus on an obsession with the appearance of short term results, some of them illusory.

    The Chinese are benefiting from simple and fundamental cultural values, e.g. a work ethic, an education ethic, a respect between generations. In the last few decades they have had a half way enlightened government that understands what causes humans to devote their efforts to improving the productivity of the society. Xi also seems to be attempting to suppress the inevitable corruption associated with human and corporate greed. So far the Chinese population is buying the package.

    And yet we have to ask what Singaporeans don’t understand about China’s power? If this trend continues, China will blow by us and not even look back. Already happening now.

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  • mike:

    I had travelled to several CN cities in the past 21 years. I do not claim i know better. I see her changes, i saw her advancing forward, i saw those wow wow wow happenings, and i see her reversing. There were initial hope for Xi to bring something even better. Alas, the last 5 years is indeed on “R” gear.

    We may claim to know a country having stayed there for years. How many and how much we really know Singapore for those of us having stayed here for many years? Some had even never been out far from Singapore, do they know any better?

    It is easy for us to compare technology to say who are more “advanced”, it is also easy for us to compare things that brought us convenient to say those did not were backwards. From Angmo Tua-Kee, we are evolving to CN Tua-Kee. 21 years ago i already know there is nothing much we can really teach CN as there is nothing we know they cannot know or don’t know. They are hungry, intelligent, creative and they have no concept of right to wrong for MOST of the people, even now.

    And if this (technology) is a measurement of how a country should be managed or ruled, then why not be its citizen? Be there and be ready to serve their country? Why be like our ah-neh friends in SG, or our MY half brother and sisters who are happy to go back to retire? Yes, SGrean are generally naive, but not retard. Yes, our MSM are selectively reporting news but we have internet.

    We all know the mouth speaks faster than the body reacts, and ourselves knows why we ain’t giving up the citizenship for those who yet to do so.

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  • oxygen:

    I BELIEVE PART OF THE DEBATE in this thread have gone off tangency. It is true that technologically, China have advanced greatly in the last 15 years.

    But have anyone thought of these realities?

    Technology have been around for hundreds of years since the industrial revolution the same way as electrification changed civilisation and economy. But did that solve all the problems of those countries in the forefront in the cutting edge technology?

    IT NEVER DOES!

    Motorola came and gone, same as LUCENT TECHNOLOGY, and that Kodak moment as with supersonic air travel. Technology is EVOLVING, you invent something, I improve on that and overtake you! That is why the Nokia moment didn’t last in the same way as Samsung and Apple will find. In 5 to 10 years time, your smart phone is museum artefacts, whatever brand of manufacture. Fukushima tells us that nuclear is NOT the solution to de-carbonized world – they can’t store radioactive water used to keep the cooling reactor from dangerous radio-active contamination of the atmosphere. Don’t bent fossil fuel, climate change wreak havoc and risks cooking up human civilisation alive on this planet.

    KNOWLEDGE IS AN EXPANDING CIRCLE, THE MORE YOU LEARN THE MORE YOU DISCOVER YOU DON’T KNOW AND NEED TO EXPLORE NEW FRONTIER.

    AND THERE IS NEFARIOUS POISONING FROM TECHNOLOGY. Space exploration leads us to militarisation of space war of futuristic movie construction BUT IT IS REAL.

    FACIAL TECHNOLOGY OPENS UP AVENUES OF POLITICAL EXPLOITATION AND SLAVERY. IT IS BIG THING IN CHINA but in the West, privacy law overrules for good reasons.

    SO LET NO ONE GET INFACTUATED WITH TECHNOLOGY – technology kills technology and renders human stupid and robotics, and when technology fails us, ALL DIES OF STARVATION EXCEPT THE ABORIGINALS who lives by hunting for their own food and shelter.

    THE WEST GOT BIG PROBLEMS OF EMBEDDED TECHNOLOGY. YOU CAN’T RIP UP ALL THE METRO LINES AND DEMOLISH ALL AIRPORTS to build new eye-sores like China.

    NEW IS NOT PROGRESS, IT IS JUST NEW.

    ECONOMY IS NOT BIOLOGY IN ENVIRONMENT OF LIMITED NATURAL RESOURCES. BIG POPULATION IS MIRAGE WEALTH, VIBRANCY, VERY EXPENSIVE AND FALLING LIVING STANDARDS, STRUGGLING WITH GLOBAL WARMING AND COOKING.

    DON’T LET PAPpypolitics and PAPpynomics fool you!!

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  • oxygen:

    CASHLESS PAYMENT SOCIETY LIKE CHINA IS PROGRESS and utopia? No, I beg to disagree. Facial recognition technology is taking us backward into feudalism slavery – all insidious if fallen into the wrong hands of control. In China, XJP and CCP can force it down the throats of peasants, but better that NOT happen in LEE-jiapore of “smart society”.

    My reliable informed source “told” me that at least ONE financial institution is STEALING customer’s MONEY via the smart technology – never mind the law. Information to customers say they are doing X, all sweetly law-compliant on paper advice (unsigned because this communication DOES NOT REQUIRE SIGNATURE as told), BUT IN DIRECT DEBITING, IT DID Y, take out your money, if you don’t check and confronting (and if you confront them red-handed, they either turned opague or dismissive or obfuscating telling you BY PHONE ONLY, thus no paper record, that they changed the rule from X to Y WITHOUT COMMENTING this is legal or law compliant or not. Cashless digital payment OPENS UP A CAN OF WORMS FOR WHITE-COLLAR THIEVES TO STEAL YOUR MONEY without a gun or knife on the street which attracts criminal offence liabilities. They steal your money systematically at regular interval, SEALED WITH A BIG SMILE because there are too many customers to steal of such easy convenience and availability and only one regulator who is too busy with bigger cases to hunt down or just not interested in small cases.

    DECADES AGO, AN ABORIGINAL ELDER DOWN UNDER WALKED ME through the Australian bush – he showed me his forever survival technique come water roll in or sky fallen from above. INCREDIBLY, by looking at leaves foilage on the ground, HE COULD TELL ME A SNAKE HAVE CRAWLED THROUGH THAT PATCH OF LITTLE PLOT OF LAND not long ago (from a few minutes to a few hours), and by following the dry leaves, he could find where the s*ake is hiding (if it is still loitering/hiding nearby), HE CAUGHT A FEW, probably include some deadly poisonous ones IN A FEW HOURS I WAS WITH HIM.

    THESE ARE SURVIVAL SKILLS WHICH TECHNOLOGY CANNOT PROVIDE AND IS PASSED DOWN FROM GENERATIONS DATING HUNDRED OR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

    Once technology takes over, and fails (technology works on electricity and if electricity fails), GUESS WHO WILL SURVIVE the human civilisation?

    Facial recognition tells who is under surveillance and “caught” of attention. Lets say A, but A spoke to C for 20 minutes BUT COULD NOT DETECT WHAT A SPOKE TO C (his good friend). C became suspect too IN OPERATION COLD STORE like dragnet, C is also imprisoned merely talking about stocks and shares with A but caught on camera.

    Mass detention via facial technology? You want??

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  • oxygen:

    Ooops, typo error there, sorry

    oxygen: Don’t bent fossil fuel, climate change wreak havoc and risks cooking up human civilisation alive on this planet.

    should be read as

    oxygen: Don’t BAN fossil fuel, climate change WILL wreak havoc and risks cooking up human civilisation alive on this planet.

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  • oxygen:

    ANYWAY, THOSE WHO QUEUE UP OR WORST STILL FIGHT VIOLENTLY OVER Q priority for little inducement or temptations ARE JUST A STUPID MOB

    Their lives are led by the nose of advertisement of temptations of gratification for the brevity of moment now.

    They can’t see the relevance of bigger picture nor the moment beyond now.

    HOW CAN THEY EVER HOPE TO SURVIVE AND PROSPER IN A WORLD OF TURBULENT CHANGES?

    From Buffet, to Mark Zuckerberg, to Gates, they live very simple daily lives of FRUGALITY, NEVER TEMPTED BY LITTLE INDUCEMENTS or advertising bombarding their daily lives.

    70% Sinkies are a failed and dejected lot, worrying about THEIR PRIORITIES OF ESTATE UPGRADING EXCHANGING THEIR VOTE AND THEIR real estate FICTITIOUS values NOW when it dwindles to zero on HDB lease expiry?

    HOW COMICAL CAN THIS LOW-NESS AND SLOWNESS OF STUPIDITY GET TO BE?

    PRIMITIVE MINDSET OF NO SURVIVAL SKILLS!!!

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  • 4 = 4 is quite universal:

    //We may claim to know a country having stayed there for years. How many and how much we really know Singapore for those of us having stayed here for many years? Some had even never been out far from Singapore, do they know any better?//

    good one ? even 30% and 70% think differently ? lagi best are the white monkey idiots where white idiots feel that 4 = 5 and selected = elected even though the mathematical logic all throughout the world (let alone sinkie land) for simple maths like 4 = 4 is quite universal ???

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  • Utopia ?:

    China Utopia ?

    Utopia still have drugs syndicate selling in and out of China ?

    Utopia still have phone scams operations in and out of China ?

    Utopia still have beggars ?
    During the early 90s, my ex colleagues who studied in Europe or USA. They feedback what they saw, ang mo beggars in their mid twenties asking for alms. Ang mo beggars dressed quite nicely and presentable. And sometime they carry a book to read. Unlike the ragged destitute beggars we know.
    So now China beggar upgraded a new notch , carry mobile phone.
    This beggar is not getting my money.

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  • Sojoürner of Truth:

    From Buffet, to Mark Zuckerberg, to Gates, they live very simple daily lives of FRUGALITY, NEVER TEMPTED BY LITTLE INDUCEMENTS or advertising bombarding their daily lives.

    70% Sinkies are a failed and dejected lot, worrying about THEIR PRIORITIES OF ESTATE UPGRADING EXCHANGING THEIR VOTE AND THEIR real estate FICTITIOUS values NOW when it dwindles to zero on HDB lease expiry?

    @ oxygen, howdy? Climate devastation, now Wuhan virus,. World is in turmoil.

    “Highly cultivated people are as near to barbarism as the polished steel is to rust.” While I don’t know the origin of the quote, it is as true today as it was during the worst of times.

    When we talk about innovation, optimism and jobs we are failing to address our need for revolutionary changes in our values, ethics and economies.
    I would suggest instead of guessing about what the new paradigms mean in the context of our present economy we look at new economies that address the new paradigms. But, technological advancement wasn’t won to keep an elite in power but to create policies enabling economic freedom for the majority.

    Kodak – Instagram is false equivalency. Kodak made cameras and sold film. Cameras are still sold and are built into cellphones. Film was replaced by mass storage chips. Hard-copy images are made using special inks and papers. Kodak failed to evolve.

    Always go with the truth and not the tribe, but unfortunately human beings are tribal. Why?” The answer, in ten words: America – tens of trillions of dollars squandered on All Things Military. China, India – Hundreds of millions of Chinese and Indians lifted out of poverty because the digital revolution permitted manufacturing to go overseas.

    People who could run a computer with Solid Works in China could understand the specifications required by a firm in Ohio. The impediments to internationalization fell after digital communications and manufacturing. Is global growth the real fruit of the digital revolution? I really don’t know.

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  • Partial truth?:

    China still queue even though the 2 deny it.

    With videos pics news straight from China.

    在西安,有一种年味儿叫排队买腊牛肉
    http://www.sn.xinhuanet.com/2020-01/22/c_1125494644.htm

    Probably these 2 ” 10 years in China ” experts need to reassess.

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  • Partial truth?:

    http://www.chinahightech.com/html/Info/fuwu/2020/0102/5534365.html
    天津麦吉奶茶元旦迎来盛大开业,说好不哭么?排队排得哭!!

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  • Partial truth?:

    https://m.chinanews.com/wap/detail/zw/sh/2019/09-12/8954772.shtml

    新中国成立70周年纪念币预约首日 老人熬夜排队

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