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TraceTogether data can only be used for serious crimes

Even with such a legislation, it is not good enough. The government’s promise to the people is solely for tracing infection.

There should be no exceptions. By extending to “serious crimes” the government is presuming that the people alleged to have committed those crimes are guilty of the crimes. The government is not the judiciary. The prosecuted may be innocent and acquitted by the courts? But data has been mined. What remedies can the innocent obtain from the government?

How do we trust our leaders? They have breached so many promises, making so many laws against the interest of the people.

 

Teo Soh Lung

 

 

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37 Responses to “TraceTogether data can only be used for serious crimes”

  • ST: The app and tokens exchange Bluetooth signals in an encrypted and randomised form with nearby users to quickly track people exposed to confirmed Covid-19 cases. The data, when unencrypted, is linked to a person’s phone number and other identification details.

    Quote: The data, when unencrypted, is linked to a person’s phone number and other identification details.

    Question: WHAT “other identification details”, address book, SMS messages, phone records, calendar?

    “Serious crimes” also very subjective unless it is clearly defined in the law. I may perceive an assault under Section 323 (VCH) as very serious because the victim’s tooth kenna punched out and bleeding badly, but the police may think someone calling a millister an idiot or liar, very super serious.

    That having said, I am tempted to agree with Ms Teo, that the app should ONLY be used for what it was promised to be intended for, nothing else.

    The police already have enormous powers and apparatus to allow them to do their job, no point trying to make their job super easier with this fresh wayang kulit, resulting in further erosion of the limited remaining trust that Sinkies have for the PARTY.

    If I were the LEEders, I would commit immediately and assure Sinkies that it will only be used for the purpose that it was originally intended for. The MAIN focus now should be on a high take up rate of the app so that the C19 (weak and cannot bite) virus can be controlled, not how easier it would be for the police to do their job. But then how can one expect LEEders who are used to having things their way to wanna lose face like that.

    In any case, my perception of this whole fiasco is that it is more about face-saving for teh LEEders, the rest secondary.

    What do you think?

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  • Police CLOSE DOWN:

    They can already track using smartphones or even those old type handphones.

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  • No trust:

    “ST: The app and tokens exchange Bluetooth signals in an encrypted and randomised form with nearby users to quickly track people exposed to confirmed Covid-19 cases.”

    ST telling half truth.

    Those things track people close to one another. Period. Whether exposed to covid or not is totally not considered in the app or token.

    A more honest statement will be:
    ….. to quickly track people that the police want to track, e.g., for covid, for “serious” crimes, and for whatever else the police want to track.

    A poor woman was jailed for many months because she was too embarrassed/scared/forgetful to admit that she saw her lover a few times. With these gadgets, many people can be caught for not reporting full contacts, even if truly cannot remember.

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  • 1984:

    Corrupt Pappy is just a CCP in a smaller outfit.
    What is so surprising?

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  • I don't trust:

    I read it as “formalizing IN LAW” the additional provision to allow the data to be extracted by the Police and steps in preparation for such usage beyond Covit-19, not the other way around since the prior promise for the uptake is solely for “contact tracing” and in a “PANDEMIC SITUATION”. The contract tracing “DATA” exchanged is also very “LIMITED” prior and we must caution against provision to secretly expand the “privacy DATA” captured/exchanged in the future.

    We must not simply trust and caution ourselves against them making the “puppy tag Tracing Device” forcefully “COMPULSORY FOR LIFE”. That could happen if the people continue to silently accede by participation volume.

    Citing for public safety is a lame excuse as criminal can easily defeat the device by NOT carrying it to the crime sense. Also the current data exchanged does not make any differentiation of the distance from the criminal thus by common sense, the prospective extension of the “data exchanged” would be imminent in their next citing of “for public safety” lame excuses.

    Exactly like the CPF broken promise. I don’t trust them anymore.

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  • Toking Cock Emeritus:

    Pappy and ZZP are brothers.
    You kick pappy a$$e but suck ZZP cock.
    Either you’re a fool or a greedy hypocrite.

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  • Realistically:

    @ Teo Soh Lung

    I totally agree that whatever legislation is introduce as regards the Police (forcible and abusive) use of the TT tokens is totally unjustifiable given that the INTER-MINISTERIAL committee had given its assurance that the TT tokens would ONLY be used for contact tracing – “PERIOD”.

    What does the word “PERIOD” means in the context of what was said at the INTER-MINISTERIAL public interview?

    Surely it meant that there could NEVER be any other use of the TT data OTHER THAN for CONTACT TRACING purpose ONLY.

    Law & Home Minister Shanmugam has shown his FARCE in his Parliament Statement pertaining to the Parti Liyani’s travesty of justice, even to the extent of raising doubts about the judgment of Justice Chan Seng Onn who was in fact backed by the Chief Justice in the latter allowing Parti’s application for the 2 DPPs to be referred to the Law Society’s Disciplinary Committee………..

    I would call the Minister’s supposed consultation with other “experts” wayang given the fact that I have yet to see such “experts” calling out the emperor without clothes “ABUSE OF POWER” and the judiciary failing its most fundamental duties and responsibilities to grant justice to what must be the most deserving, compelling and substantive case in the history of litigation dating back centuries in common law countries.

    Yes the FACTS are that clear as to the judiciary breaches of the judges’ Oaths of office in the First Schedule (Form 6) of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore and other Articles therein especially Articles 2, 4, 9, 12(1) and 97(1).

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  • Principles of Privacy:

    Lawfulness and purpose limitation.

    These are two of the principles of personal data privacy.

    In terms of purpose limitation, trace together shall ONLY be used for tracing purpose. For other purposes, consent must be obtained from the user.

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  • Principles of Privacy:

    The cybersecurity alliance (CSA) never come to point out this? Where is the professionalism?

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  • Principles of Privacy:

    International IT/software products and services are watching this saga. And maybe think twice investing here.

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  • Realistically:

    Oh, in the context of Ms Teo’s article, sinkies should ask why did the emperor without clothes regime’s INTER-MINITERIAL committee take 210 days from its first public assurance about the SOLE USE of the TT data was for CONTACT TRACING ONLY – “PERIOD” followed by the ASSURANCE given in PARLIAMENT by the (then) DPM Teo Chee Hean, ON BEHALF of the EMPEROR WITHOUT CLOTHES that the TT token data would ONLY be used for CONTACT TRACING purpose ONLY.

    Also why did NOT Law and Home Affairs Minister correct Ministers Balakrishnan and Lawrence Wong regarding the FACT/LAW that the Criminal Procedure Code gave (and give) the right of the Police to seize the TT tokens from suspected criminals whether the crime was serious or not or was politically motivated as their persecution of Jolovan Wham and the gentleman who had been prosecuted again and again for staging his ONE MAN protest against the emperor without clothes abuse of power?

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  • Realistically:

    In the context of Ms Teo’s comments, I think it is appropriate for me to repost what I had posted earlier in another related thread:

    Realistically:
    January 9, 2021 at 12:21 am (Quote)

    PM Lee Hsien Loong: “..painless, effective, and important”

    Really “painless”? Could be that he just got a saline jab which would be painless lah……….just my speculation and NOT factual.

    I invite people to read the advisory of the US Federal Drug Administration at its website:

    “Common Side Effects

    The most commonly reported side effects, which typically lasted several days, were pain at the injection site, tiredness, headache, muscle pain, chills, joint pain, and fever. Of note, more people experienced these side effects after the second dose than after the first dose, so it is important for vaccination providers and recipients to expect that there may be some side effects after either dose, but even more so after the second dose.”

    Link: https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine
    —-
    The US FDA’s site is NOT spewing FAKE news BUT FACTUAL based on scientific and thorough medical tests and data………….recognised throughout the WORLD, unlike the propaganda of the emperor without clothes regime and the 158th ranked media.

    If what the emperor without clothes said his vaccination was “painless” I just wonder how that could be so, in the light of the FDA advisory…………….perhaps the emperor without clothes did NOT receive the Pfizer vaccine, but something else……….I cannot think of any other explanation. Also, it would have been more believable his injection was independently verified, say with Prof Thambyah as witness to the authenticity of the vaccine and whether the emperor without clothes DID feel the pain, but chose to say otherwise.

    Also:

    Sinkies might like to know what the US FDA has to say about the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine:

    https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

    >>WHAT IS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?

    The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.<<

    I suggest that it is PREMATURE for the emperor without clothes to claim that the vaccine is “effective”, although the clinical trials thus far show that the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines are 95% effective………….but the LONG-TERM effects would not be known until maybe years later.

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  • xoxo:

    Oh ya,SERIOUS CRIMES indeed.
    Like Robbing CITIZENS’ DECENT JOBS and handling them over to some FTs with fake credentials
    Like looting a mere $100 BILLION ONLY and dishing them out most unfairly and UNKNOWING N ACCOUNTED?

    SGS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GRANTED $23K EACH BUT GOT ONLY $600,what happens to the balance?

    Like top officials taking time off from office-hours to do HANKY PANKY STUFFS instead of working hard for the people?

    Like telling elderly to collect cardboard or wash toets till they drop dead after stealung their CPF SAVINGS meant for retirement!

    Like demanding arrogantly needy sgs that theu take up $1K jobs unquestioningly and paying themselves MILLION$$$ for poor performance.
    Telling sgs to embrace foreign/outside competition dumped here by THEM$elves while PUTTING BARRIERS LIKE GRC N POFMA TO PROTECT THEIR OWN *JOB$*?

    ARE CRIMES MORE SERIOUS IF THOSE CRIMES AFFECT A WIDE SPECTRUM OF CITIZENS OR A MURDER THAT THE PERPETRATOR KILLS ONLY HIS ONLY VICTIM?

    WHAT ABOUT ABUSING THE SUBSERVIENT CIVIL SERVANTS TO ONE’S OWN BENEFITS?

    CRIMES? SERIOUS CRIMES?
    THINK.

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  • #06-191 Sor Hais:

    Used for serious crimes? What is their definition of serious crimes?

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  • Harder Truths:

    A serious crime in $G can be you say something like Infamous Amos. It can be anything and everything. Even that you look at the MIW in a ‘wrong way’. You can be held for ‘health reasons’. The ballsless 61% will just obey.

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  • fishtboall:

    “TraceTogether data can only be used for serious crimes”

    Of course I believe PAP. I believe that anything that goes against PAP’s agenda is a serious crime , including holding harmless card board not to PAP’s liking
    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/41BA/production/_115662861_jolovan.png

    Holding harmless card board and deem as serious crime as murder must be only kind in the whole world, likely in whole universe as well.

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  • PAP cannot be trusted. Period:

    This proves once again that PAP cannot be trusted and that Singapore is a PAP-run police state. Elections are a farce.

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  • Straits Times is FAKE NEWS:

    Straits Times: Covid-19 vaccine 101: All you need to know, from what to expect to how safe it is

    “All” does not include studies done outside China by reputable public or private agencies that show that Sinovac COVID19 vaccine is effective and safe. Widespread use in China, in Third World countries like Indonesia and Philippines and in fake First World country like Singapore does not prove these.

    PAP and their “friends” made sure they vaccinated with vaccine (made by Pfizer) before the Chinese vaccine arrives in Singapore. All others will have to take their chances on the Chinese vaccine. You get sick and die from it – your problem.

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  • NotMyProblem:

    #06-191 Sor Hais:
    Used for serious crimes? What is their definition of serious crimes?

    Which is serious; Making false police report or alleged stealing of a spoilt DVD player?

    The one who allegedly stole a spoilt DVD player was exonerated by the court, but suffered 4 years of unemployment and homelessness. What about the person who made the false police report? No picture No sound!!

    It boiled down to who you are!!! You trust the Singapore police?

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  • Billy ma:

    PAP is trying to worm itself out of this messy hole that was dugged by PAP.

    I’m afraid PAP will get away.

    Can we trust PAP?
    Serious crimes only?

    When it’s up to the PAP ministers to decide what is ‘serious crimes’, throwing a piece of paper can be as classified if the PAP minister is in bad mood.

    Yes, it’s up to the mood & fancy of the PAP ministers to justify their own action.

    And then of course PAP will simply make a ministerial statement in parliament.
    Case closed.

    It’s the usual trick so move on, nothing to see here.

    Sad.

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  • Bad Faith:

    The Party has again acted in bad faith by telling the people that TT is only for “contact tracing” of Covid 19 infections but has now gone back on its word. So TT can and will be used for purpose(s) other than Covid 19. They finally decide to tell the truth, after 70% have downloaded the app or taken their tokens. LOL! Trust is eroding in this country – trust in govt, in Parliament, in judiciary, in state agencies, in state media, in law enforcement. Trust is the superstructure of society and vital at every level of relationships. Without it, society cannot function.

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  • Laws r meant to be changed:

    What they have proven is Laws they can change laws anytime.

    What are laws when laws keep changing?
    It tells us they can change it to suit them?

    Absolute power?

    Alibaba huge shareholder of singpost today,
    Will china buy singapore tomorrow?
    https://vulcanpost.com/728897/alibaba-billion-dollar-plans-singapore/

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  • Attend Rallies Traceable?:

    Can TT show we attended a Rally or took part in a opposition event?

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  • Flaw in TraceTogether:

    If its used as evidence, then it can become a weapon against the innocent.

    Eg.
    Criminal ABC premeditated a crime. He is aware of TT. So, he turns it off from the App or place the Token Dongle somewhere else.
    He committed the crime and he says, MY FKING TOKEN PROVES I WAS NOT THERE.

    Over to you ah Neh prata flipper.

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  • oxygen:

    THE 61% ARE TOO STUPID to even begin to discover they are stupid beyond infinity.

    It is called Dunning-Kruger effects.

    Wikipedia :The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from people’s inability to recognize their lack of ability

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect#:~:text=The%20Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger%20effect%20is,recognize%20their%20lack%20of%20ability.

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  • Sad sad world:

    In short, in this country everyone is guilty until proven innocent…
    God help those who cant show proof..

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  • #06-191 Noisy Sor Hais:

    That’s why I asked for THEIR definirion. Just like they have their definition of illegal assembly.

    NotMyProblem: Which is serious; Making false police report or alleged stealing of a spoilt DVD player?

    The one who allegedly stole a spoilt DVD player was exonerated by the court, but suffered 4 years of unemployment and homelessness. What about the person who made the false police report? No picture No sound!!

    It boiled down to who you are!!! You trust the Singapore police?

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  • Asd:

    I think hard core criminal will not use token then these silent carriers will spread and defeat the purpose of this trace token resulting in money into nothing

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  • Realistically:

    Pertaining to Lee Suet Fer’s 15 months suspension from promise:

    I would like to thank Mr Lee Hsien Yang for sharing the legal advice and analysis from a preeminent QC. The legal opinion offered validates what I had said before: that the decision of the 3 Judges Court to suspend LSF for 15 months is totally unjustifiable under any law, maybe except the laws as practised by the Singapore judiciary………………it was to me, a TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE, which had also dished out to me by the judiciary and whose judgment I had made a point by point rebuttal with more than 66 authorities, including several by earlier CA decisions made by the SAME JUDGES on the SAME LEGAL issues.

    As for LKY’s will, what should be acknowledged is that a Will is AMBULATORY ie the person making the Will, called the Testator – female is called Testatrix, but I would just use the term Testator, can, and often do, change his/her Will at ANY TIME…………and that so long as he/she does not make any further change or call for a new Will, what’s stated in the LAST Will are his/her LAST WISH……….and that he/she had been satisfied/happy with the Will as representing his/her last wish as to how the Executor/Executrix should distribute/dispose of the Testator/Testatrix assets………..which should be the ONLY criterion in assessing if there had been any misconduct and or undue influence or the testamentary capacity of the Testator. The FACT that LKY had Ms Kwa Kim Li as his PERSONAL lawyer at all relevant time and was fully aware of the execution of the 7th and last Will clearly would have been an appropriate safeguard of LKY’s interest.

    As I’ve commented b4, since the 3JC had agreed that LSF was NOT at ANY time LKY’s lawyer, the Legal Profession Act and its subsidiary Professional Conduct Rules should not have been applied especially for the reasons the Law Society had cited in its charge.

    The language used by Mr Dutton QC is too polite, as the Singapore judges do NOT deserve any respect for what I see as their Travesties of justice………..and that LSF should NEVER have been suspended for 15 months, which I had said right from the beginning when the judgment was published.

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  • Broken promises ?:

    Broken promises ? Cmon,

    More interesting topics to write than repeating the above.

    How about Oxygen poor surmise of sg property market. Since 2009 already saying crash crash crash. After 11 years still going edges up. Another challenged him in some other column earlier.

    Or how much Mr TKL profit from vested in Elon Musk ventures ?
    ( Another Oxygen brushed down when TKL share what he invested )

    Or someone profited from Bitcoin ( went to 40,000 ) , another Oxygen brushed down much much earlier.

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  • Not guilty or guilty?:

    Wrong. Got picture got sound.

    Lots of picture and sound everywhere paid for with your tax money, in the toilet paper news, facebook, posters and elsewhere.

    Same guy even went into the sacred house and declare that fellow innocent and re-convict the innocent.

    NotMyProblem: Which is serious; Making false police report or alleged stealing of a spoilt DVD player?

    The one who allegedly stole a spoilt DVD player was exonerated by the court, but suffered 4 years of unemployment and homelessness. What about the person who made the false police report? No picture No sound!!

    It boiled down to who you are!!! You trust the Singapore police?

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  • Can TT data mislead?:

    If a criminal who cimmitted a crime intentionally turned off the TT or leave it somewhere else and then do the crime, will an innocent near scene of crime be jailed because he is the only one indicated by the TT data as being at the scene?

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  • oxygen:

    @ Broken promises?

    You asserts/claims above

    “Or someone profited from Bitcoin ( went to 40,000 ) , another Oxygen brushed down much much earlier.”

    I should like to remind you of this – it happens or is happening to Bitcoin tonight on New York market documented in Marketwatch.com.

    Bitcoin drops 13% after bullish start to 2021

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoin-drops-13-after-bullish-start-to-2021-11610358317?mod=mw_latestnews

    I can see that a lot of Bitcoin rampaging bulls got slaughtered.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Broken promises

    OH BTW, UK market regulator warned tonight this on Bitcoin and crytocurrencies betting.

    QUOTE

    The U.K.’s financial regulator on Monday issued a very blunt warning about the rise of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

    “If consumers invest in these types of product, they should be prepared to lose all their money.”— U.K. Financial Conduct Authority

    UNQUOTE

    ‘Prepare to lose all your money’ — regulator’s blunt warning on bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/prepare-to-lose-all-your-money-regulators-blunt-warning-on-bitcoin-and-other-cryptocurrencies-11610365823?mod=home-page

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  • Realistically:

    Rather than continue with comments about the proposed new legislation limiting Police access to the data in the TT token, which itself exposed what I believe is the deceit of the govt, people might want to think more broadly about the issue of the quality or otherwise of the judiciary in the light of the UK’s most pre-eminent QC, Mr Dutton, CBE, legal opinion as to the flawed legal reasoning of the 3 Judges Court, supposedly underpinning the court’s decision to ssuspend Lee Suet Fern from practising law for 15 months.

    After all when the occasion arises on the Police use of the TT token data, it is for the court to decide whether to accept or reject the prosecution/defendant’s submission as regards the use of the said data.

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  • Realistically:

    I should have added to my last post about Law & Home Affairs Minister Shanmugam’s speech in Parliament on 21 March 2018 and which was reported by the 158th ranked media on 22 March 2018 as follows (some extracts only):

    Strong, trusted judiciary the bedrock of rule of law: Shanmugam

    PUBLISHED
    MAR 22, 2018, 5:00 AM SGT

    A strong and trusted judiciary is the bedrock of rule of law, and is worth defending vigorously, said Law and Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam yesterday.

    “When the quality of the judiciary suffers, the rule of law suffers. When the rule of law suffers, the country suffers,” he added.
    —-
    In view of Mr Dutton, CBE & QC -the UK’s most pre-eminent lawyer specialising in Administrative law and professional misconduct cases – legal opinion debunking the reasoning underpinning the 3 judges court decision to suspend LSF for 15 months, it must be apparent that the “quality of the judiciary” is more 3rd world banana republic of despots rather than 1st world as the propaganda had claimed. The “quality of the judiciary” must also be seen in the context of Assoc Professor Eugene KB Tan’s unnfavourable comments in the TODAY on-line newspaper on the District Court’s judgment of the Parti Liyani’s case and his use of the term “travesty of justice” which was separately by Harpreet Singh Nehal SC in the 158th ranked newspaper in which Mr Nehal expressed his deep concern about the systemic nature of the District Court’s proceedings resulting in Parti’s conviction which was fortunately overturned by the High Court on appeal.

    So how is Law & Home Affairs Minister proposing to give effect to his said 21 March 2018 Parliament speech that: “When the quality of the judiciary suffers, the rule of law suffers. When the rule of law suffers, the country suffers,” when it is clear, at least in my mind, that the quality of the judiciary has been shown to be more akin to that of a banana republic rather than 1st World?

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  • Realistically:

    The speeches made by Sundaresh Menon CJ, Lucien Wong AG are attempts to cover for the travesties of injustice they have been directly responsible and should be held to account.

    The unjustified and unjustifiable reasons/basis for their unjudicial decisions resulting in the travesties of justice to the litigants who are prima facie, blacklisted in accordance with the emperor without clothes public pronouncement at the 2006 GE Rally of how to “FIX” his critics and opponents and how to “BUY” his supporters’ votes.

    So don’t be taken in by all those good sounding speeches which would only get taken in by the ignorannts gullables sinkies

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