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Detention of a teenager by ISD

As the silence continues concerning the fate of the teenage ISD detainee after vague statements made on Wed and Thurs by MHA’s K. Shanmugam, the public at large remains not only clueless but astonished at how people can just be detained like that without any accountability?

This is the first real test for our WP and PSP MPs and their inaction are baffling to the electorate! This undue incident also demonstrated our religious leaders puppetry to the government’s tune and how comfortable they are with their pay cheques and position.

Despite MHA failing to show proof of how an average secondary school student could displayed super knowledge of securing ammunition in a gun-free Singapore among other sketchy details, MHA’s statement also suggested that the case is so weak that it could not stand the test of our judicial officers.

Instead, a staged hearing with no avenues for appeal will be held inside ISD before an appointed civil servant who is subservient to MHA. If the lawyer representing the teenager is Alfred Dodwell, Peter Low or even M. Ravi, it could perhaps be argued there is some legitimacy to this case.

Even if we were to take MHA’s arguments at its highest face value, it is virtually impossible to brush away the fact that our Courts have a chambers system, designed specifically for sensitive cases to be argued away from public and the state media’s glare. Except that the judge in this instance cannot be Aedit Abdullah for purposes of sensitivity and potential conflict of interest.

This should rightly concern anyone of you on the street even if you’re not a parent. If the Singapore government can make a narrative out of a presumably innocent teenager who is supposed to be protected under UN convention, the PAP will stoop to any length to preserve its power. This is something the civil activists who demonstrated in front of MOE fail to understand.

Under the absence of at least a chambers hearing, we cannot conclude this latest incident occurred as the government conveyed to us as we are not privy to the facts and such political antics will only serve to tear the fabric of our Nation instead of uniting us as a United people is not beneficial to the PAP’s divide and rule tactics.

 

Jude Tan

 

 

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39 Responses to “Detention of a teenager by ISD”

  • I am doc not lawyer:

    Then voting age should be set to 16 and above.

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  • Eddie:

    “puppetry to the government’s tune and how comfortable they are with their pay cheques and position.”
    Agreed: the recent TraceTogether debacle whereby all the yes-men/women could not or dare not point out is the same case! There were so many highly paid personnel involved, including various millionaire ministers and it took nearly a year to discover CPC law is paramount! So many million$s brains but all just “yes” all along and all the way!

    As Ngiam famous words still ring very well: if you pay them obscenely well they will be beholden and keep their mouths shut by sayig “yes”!

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  • xoxo:

    There should be an independant committee to assess such cases of MINORS.

    Perhaps,*TEACH LESS LEARN MORE* POLICY of MOE veers our kids toward * SELF-RESEARCH* via internet.

    So,why put blames WHOLLY on our kids?

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  • xoxo:

    Under-guidance in schools(education $y$tem) that leads our kids excessively relying on INTERNET *TO LEARN* leading to MISGUIDANCE of our kids is the BIG MISTAKE OF ADULTS,of our TEACHERS,OF OUR EDUCATION MINISTER.

    LACK OF CIVIC EDUCATION OVER THE PAST 3 DECADES LEADS TO SUCH OUTCOME,AMONGST OTHER NEGATIVE OUTCOMES.

    THIS KID IS MISGUIDED AND THE EDUCATION STSTEM OF TEACH LESS LEARN MORE is to be blamed!

    Our poor kids cannot pay for EXTRA TUITIONS OUTSIDE SCHOOLS AND THEY SEARCH THE NET MORE EXCESSIVELY.
    BTE,TUITION TEACHERS DO NOT TEACH MORALS.
    THEY ARE IN BUSINESS TO MAKE SURE THEIR CHARGES SCORE ACADEMICALLY?

    SO,WHOSE FAULT IF OUR KIDS GET MISGUIDED?

    JAIL THE MINISTERS ,PRINCIPALS N EDUCATOR$$$!

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  • PAP mandate strong:

    No offence but author who are u?

    What are your credentials? Your area of expertise?

    Are u expert in criminology, terrorism , psychology ?

    Or experience ? U rescue many from the brink of suicide or self destruction or many drug addicts gave up narcotics and turnover a new leaf ?

    Just because of empathy or sympathy u meddle in . Plus we the public dont get the entire picture.

    How difficult to get a gun , answer just one causeway over. In indonesia thailand one can also get as long as u know the source or supplier.

    Explosive, fertilizer can make.

    Formally about 15 years ago + – , a shootout murder case ( is it serangoon ave 4 ) where the culprit nickname 獨眼龍 got his gun ( i think old time 6 shooter ) from Malaysia. Later news came out that old timers gun about 200+ sgd can get in Malaysia. Now not sure with inflation.

    Then theres dark web.

    Nah bay if u unaware of such info and want to butt in. I suggest not.

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  • #06-195, #06-191 All Sor Hai:

    “…he PAP will stoop to any length to preserve its power. This is something the civil activists who demonstrated in front of MOE fail to understand.”

    Why the comparison? The transgender student was not a threat to the PAP’s
    hold on power.

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  • Nathan Chen:

    @PAP mandate strong:
    February 4, 2021 at 1:23 pm

    It’s not empathy, it’s not sympathy. The ISA is used too broadly and loosely.

    You don’t have to be an expert to sense that the government should take action against this 16 year old but ISA is not necessary.

    When you compared a naive 16 year old student to a hardened underworld notorious gangster operating across both sides of the Causeway, you are comparing apples with oranges.

    This 16 year old boy is a loner. A helpless one. Not those dangerous lone wolf terror. No supporting network, no money to finance his one tin-soldier war. No friends and no backing of any sort.

    He was an easy meat for the ISA interrogators. He sang his heart and soul out to the ISA about his fantasy and dream of killing worshippers from two mosques but with what?

    He told the ISA everything. But he didn’t tell the ISA he wanted to cause mass destruction by driving a car where the largest number of worshippers are bound to gather before or after prayers. Why? Simply because such terror act never crosses his mind.So he said nothing of that sort. If he had told this real planned terror act to the ISD. You think the ISD would not relate to the world to know. It would make headlines in the next morning newspaper.

    This 16 year old knows not what he is talking and doing.

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  • Realistically:

    I agree with the views expressed & wonder if this is just a sick attempt to divert attention from the Travesties of Justice in the Parti Liyani; Lee Suet Fern and my cases and especially in view the legal opinion of Mr Timothy Dutton CBE & QC who is the most pre-eminent English lawyer on Administrative Law and professional misconduct cases describing the 3 Judges Court presided over by Sundaresh Menon CJ himself and a Judge of Appeal and a High Court judge that the decision to suspend Lee Suet Fern from practising law for 15 months was legally unsound and falls into serious error. … since the findings of misconduct are untenable no sanction should have been imposed.”

    I suggest that ALL ISD cases be, as soon as practical be reviewed by an independent panel headed by Prof Paul Thambyah and must consist of Ms Teo Soh Lung to see if there is indeed justification to imprison someone under the ISA.

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  • Harder Truths:

    Innocence or guilt in any real democracy is judged by a court and rule of law. Accusations have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Facts have to be presented and a defence has to be provided for the accused. If this person is really a threat let them prove it.

    In communist regimes there are no courts, no rule of law and no real justice. There are accusations by the regime in power, a summary guilty verdict by a party member who acts as the Public Prosecutor, and then prison. Not even the victim will have any idea why. Just look at Cold Store.

    The reason why the regime still needs the ISA is clear. It allows them unfettered power to do what they please regardless of any law.

    Why put a 16 -year old in prison? We may never know. Given the regime’s track record since 1965 there is every reason to believe there is a lot of manufacturing going on – for reasons the citizens will one day regret.

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  • Lim Chin Siong:

    Lim Chin Siong sad ‘Mai Pah Mata’ and the oldcock using his lieutenants said,

    He said ‘Pah Mata’

    And Lim Chin Siong was incarcerated at a youthful age!

    A man who should be the PM!

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  • Partial truth?:

    @ When you compared a naive 16 year old student to a hardened underworld notorious gangster operating across both sides of the Causeway, you are comparing apples with oranges.

    Not true, in the end goes down to who have more brains. 16 yrs old teenagers ( educated smart sly ) vs 26 yrs old adult gangster ( not educated, boorish, uncouth,….can never be big brother ), who will outwit who ?

    In strength terms , the gangster 1 to 1 sure win. Need him for fights yes. Need him to do guard okay but expansion of gang or biz , he ‘s out.

    In others, a different story.

    Using knife also can , as illustrated several cases especially close range e.g. Britain , China.

    Let them investigate and interrogate further to have a bigger and clearer picture.

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  • PAP mandate strong:

    Not empathy or sympathy?

    Then probably its your case of misconception resulted in misinformation or the other way around.

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  • Nathan Chen:

    @Partial truth?:
    February 5, 2021 at 1:55 pm

    Our dear departed One-eye Dragon was definitely much older than 26 years old.

    You cannot compare a naive 16 year old student to a cunning, battle-scarred,gun-tottering underworld gangster.

    Guts are what defined a gangster.

    You cannot compare the 16 year to this real terror.

    Sorry to have to say this, the 16 year old is an educated young fool.

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  • PAP mandate strong:

    @ Norway arrests Syrian teenager on terror suspicion

    What A travesty. Right back at Mr Nathan Chen’s face.

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  • Realistically:

    @ Partial truth?:
    February 5, 2021 at 1:55 pm (Quote)

    >>Not true, in the end goes down to who have more brains. 16 yrs old teenagers ( educated smart sly ) vs 26 yrs old adult gangster ( not educated, boorish, uncouth,….can never be big brother ), who will outwit who ?<<

    Hello, people like you, including the emperor without clothes so called "elites" might have failed to take cognizant with the term "STREET SMART" which has nothing to do with the educational level. Heard of the "elites" being "EXAM smart"?

    The emperor without clothes was a WRANGLER from the elite Cambridge U and so was his wife Ho Ching who was a President Scholar and a Stanford U post-graduate, if I'm not mistaken.

    Both have been taken for more than a ride in their disastrous performance in the (mis)management of our reserves.

    Over to you and the running dogs.

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  • Partial truth?:

    Thats my view. OK if U can dont agree.

    Like i stated above let the investigation carry on until situation more affirmative.

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  • some 'sense of justice':

    //16 yrs old teenagers ( educated smart sly ) vs 26 yrs old adult gangster ( not educated, boorish, uncouth,….can never be big brother ), who will outwit who ?//

    aiyoh. intelligence will usually outwit brute force lar if the game of the rules (law e.g as in sentence of white collar crime vs armed robbery dollar for dollar illegally taken ???) allow it lar ???

    but when it comes to the crunch, brute force hor will still be applied lar (wars, so-called legal force by enforcement officers hor ???) ??
    that is why the law reserves the use of force (exclusive membership ???) for ownself when so-called “necessary” and “appropriate” lar ??

    aiyoh. however in the context of a 16 yr old teenager, could it be some childish fantasy (young fertile / “creative” mind on all possible things until ‘reality’ says no no no to this and that ??) like wanting to be some hero and exacting some ‘sense of justice’ helping to ‘save the world’ ??

    is he linked up with a ‘nefarious’ network of like minded members (e.g adults grooming him) within / without the country ?? that it cannot be enforced by the usual cream-me-nur law that Ice-Ass-DEE must be applied ??? or is he made to be a poster boy (young boy hor ??) of the year to ‘warn’ the others who may think (think only lar ??) of venturing into more “serious” stuff ???

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  • Realistically:

    Let me just finish off the running dogs’ LIES and propaganda.

    To do what the ISD/running dogs claim of the potential harm, the teenager boy under ISA detention needs a large sum of MONEY…………where and how is that teenager deriving the funds needed to purchase a gun?

    As regards the academic qualification of the teenager and the other hardened criminal, as the running dogs claim, consider the relative academic qualifications of Mas Selamat Kastari with the “elites” or “top talents” of the emperor without clothes regime (and b4 that of Goh Chok tong and Lee Kuan Yew himself) in the Home Affairs Ministry and the ISD………….how to compare with a limp Malay not being a scholar and what I think would have been far inferior academic standards than the ISD “elites”……………….and yet Mas Selamat Kastari showed how incompetent those “elites” were.

    And it just shows the incompetence and lack of critical thinking skills of our “elites” as represented by the running dogs, that the surveillance tools and methods (think of AI and machine learning and cameras mounted all over the public space) are vastly superior than the time when the said hardened criminal had committed his crimes and managed to escape for a long time.

    This episode only goes to show how much the wayang-party MPs are devoid and deficient of their duties and responsibilities as so-called oppos to provide “check and balance” and NOT to give the emperor without clothes “BLANK CHEQUES”…….which of course was just s*ake oil salesmanship. The lack of comment and criticisms by the other so-called oppos like Chee Soon Juan and his SDP, Lim Tean and his PV party must be clear examples of their failures as oppos and potential oppo MPs…………so dun be taken in by their empty promises and the raising of populist policies without thinking about the consequences.

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  • Amos the pedo ?:

    Lets refresh memories.

    Many compassonates here so fast forgotten about the lesson and embarrassment on how in the past they got conned by Amos the pedo this teenager. Many street smarts here as they self claim.

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  • trying to be even smarter:

    //Many compassonates here so fast forgotten about the lesson and embarrassment on how in the past they got conned by Amos the pedo this teenager. Many street smarts here as they self claim.//

    who forgot lar ? do you mean ANGmos is some hardcore criminal indulging in some hardcore criminal act ???

    ANGmos was a durain smart kid trying to be even smarter (& too argumentative) ? however hor sinkie land law has a way to make example (with 158th media standard & environment ???) out of this kid & “whacked” him real hard (very very hard hor ??) until he became ki siao siaoer siaoerest ???? got to make sure some young kid learn the lesson real real hard so that the other young kids (or even adults) take very GOOD note about it hor and do not come out with some crazy ideas ???

    now ANGmos proven to be really “jiak lak” (nice fulfilling prophecy to prove that he cannot be “medicated” hor ???) ??? so after punishing him in sinkie land, he became lagi jiaklat (no redeeming effect at all ??) ??

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  • PAP mandate strong:

    AY ? Haha.
    Thats a good one.

    Remember “street smart” here e.g. KJ, Oxygen, maybe GMS, and several here who earlier supported AY only to be disappointed. What a let down.

    Lesson learnt. So Opp parties stay out of matter is wise choice.

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  • Amos the pedo ?:

    Hey aint no fan of Amos , i give u that honestly.

    As for ” trying to be even smarter “, why dont u trying to be even braver and go do something useful or practical to help the ISA detained teenager. Like chiong , drive a car into the facility and bust him out. Or protest outside the court like the lgbtq. Show real masculinity , be a real hero than trying to be even more cowardice.

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  • Nathan Chen:

    @PAP mandate strong:
    February 9, 2021 at 9:16 pm (Quote)

    Since you want to stray into the realm of street-smart, tell me more what is street-mart?

    How many more extra-judicial methods the PAP had used to detain people without trial besides the ISA in the past?

    Are you an expert street-smart?

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  • end up lim kopi:

    //why dont u trying to be even braver and go do something useful or practical to help the ISA detained teenager. Like chiong , drive a car into the facility and bust him out. Or protest outside the court like the lgbtq. Show real masculinity , be a real hero than trying to be even more cowardice.//

    aiyoh. and then get caught and put to jail lor and white idiots and gang will say “see lor kaykiang want to be hero & brave (not coward lar ??)” and start to snigger and laugh lor ???

    quite a few “heroes” did exactly (practical hor ??) what you said lor, and end up lim kopi (smiley face also a hero right or protest in front of MM-OLD-EEI ??) ????

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  • PAP mandate strong:

    As i reiterated above few time, investigation ongoing. Going in head strong is not advisable.

    After AY episode, better steer clear until the dust settle.

    Does it appear i m sabotaging opp parties ? U be the judge yourself.

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  • Realistically:

    Haha, Mas Selamat Kastari was an outstanding example of being street smart while being detained under the ISA……..why deviate from the issue with other cases?

    The emperor without clothes use of the judiciary to “FIX” his critics and opponents have been exposed for the international community to see re: former Mayor of Londan and President of the London Bar society and the legal opinion of Mr Timothy Dutton CBE QC, described as the UK’s most pre-eminenet lawyer on Administrative Law and professional misconduct cases has exposed the “serious errors based on legally unsound reasonings” must have reverberated round the international common law countries, not forgetting Assoc Prof Eugene KB Tan of SMU law school’s TODAY commentary on the Parti Liyani’s case as one of travesty of justice by District Judge Olivia Low; followed by the Harpreet Singh Nehal SC about the “SYSTEMIC WEAKNESS”, including the judicial role which had caused “significant pubic disqueit”.

    As for Amos Yee, he was not known as a pedophile at the time he was being PERSECUTED by the emperor without clothes with the US immigration judge describing his persecution as “NEFARIOUS”.

    The vacuity and bankruptcies of the emperor without clothes are being revealed by his stupid running dogs as can be seen in this and other threads…………….by detracting from the core issue with unrelated cases.

    Now sinkies should understand the reason why SINKaPOOR is getting worse and worse under the emperor without clothes.

    Bye………last comment in this thread.

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  • nathan chen:

    You also can do it yourself why you want to provoke and instigate me to do such thing. What are you trying to prove?

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  • Amos the pedo ?:

    Whoa! I m against those hollering the release of teenager since interrogation still on going. And i support the advice that opp parties should not get involved until more disclosures ( at least currently ) Information release still vague.

    So why i should do it ? I’ m the nay sayers

    Prove ?
    Someone mention guts right ?

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  • Nathan Chen:

    @Amos the pedo ?:
    February 11, 2021 at 3:00 am (Quote)

    You might as well say the 16 year old is waiting for his parents to bail him out.

    Get real.

    By now this poor chap must have signed all the detention orders the Dir of ISA and Home Affiars Minister want him to sign.

    The question is how long the ISA wants him detained behind bars.

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  • Nathan Chen:

    Amos the pedo ?:
    February 11, 2021 at 3:00 am (Quote)

    Yes, I mention guts. But in what context? Veiled threats.

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  • Amos the pedo ?:

    Dont worry.

    Perhaps if you action, get many people to sign petition for his release. Maybe ?

    Court case on going. AY may be back. Currently charge in USA for child porno. He could be deported back here.

    Then a chance for u to be the knight in shining armour.

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  • nathan chen:

    So now you switched from the 16 years old to Amos. Petition is no problem. It’not a crime. But it’s going to be fruitful or futile. That’s the problem. You are immature, lack life experience, lack education smart, lack street-smart, Lan Jiao also not smart. Go and suckle more milk from your grandmother.

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  • Amos the pedo ?:

    Like that cannot. This way also cannot. That way also cannot ?

    Then u tell us what u want to do ?

    U said release than release. Who are u? How are u going to be responsible ?

    U muz be kidding.

    Continue whining here. No difference Same outcome.
    Talk cock only!

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  • nathan chen:

    All forms of detention without trial should be abolished in Singapore, particularly the ISA. This is the big picture. Bigger than the detention of the 16 years old. Do you get it. This is what I am clamouring for here. If I belongs to the minority voice, so be it.

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  • Amos the pedo ?:

    Thats a high cause.

    Feel free to pursuit and realise this endeavour of yours.

    Wont be easy. You need patience. Not in any way to discourage you or gloat or mock or whatever.
    Honestly within 10 to 15 years i dont see it happening. Even by some lady luck , change powers will the new party scrap it immediately ?
    Probably not.
    Plus countries like China, Myanmar, Russia, Thailand, emboldened others …

    Perhaps with the advent of tech, equipments able to 99% accurately conclude a person not lying then perhaps this day will arrive.

    Or one can come up with a better system that does not compromise safety nor security of the people , to replace it.

    Meanwhile just hang in there.

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  • Nandalasy:

    Detention with out trial, in the context of Singaporean society, is absolutely necessary!

    Just like it is better to eat cooked food, nevertheless, uncooked food is also necessary for the health of any individuals.

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  • stanalone:

    Jude, Thank you for helping us sinkie see the light. All these years, this G has been telling us that they are right, they can check ownself and sinkie should just listen to them. Shame on them in this day and age.

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  • TEMUSIK PATRIOT:

    On GOING since the CON invented the… “STRIKE with Fear & Threats”… and the People will turn into Sheeple

    “Simple as that”

    SO??? LIVE with the EVIL you begat lah!!!

    Don’t vote wise;y but VOTE with FEAR!!!

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