HDB flat ownership issue nothing to do with its 99-year lease

There is only one owner of HDB flats: HDB.

Buyers of public housing flats are merely ‘lessees’.

After decades of state propaganda, many HDB lessees are still living in denial or may be just ignorant.

The issue of ownership has not been addressed.  Instead, HDB ‘owners’ have been distracted by MSM’s focus on the extension of HDB’s 99-year lease.

But isn’t it rather stupid to pay exorbitant prices for HDB flats which we do not own?

Every process – from buying to selling – involves HDB and even rental is subject to HDB’s approval.

Are HDB flat buyers owners?

Do owners of other assets need to consult or seek permission from any government agency when they sell, buy or rent out their assets?

The legal instrument involved in a HDB flat transaction is a … Lease Agreement.  And HDB is stated clearly as ‘lessor’.

(After transferring ownership title to the buyer of a unit sold by, say, CDL, the buyer is not subsequently referred to as ‘CDL lessee’)

The HDB Lease Agreement is basically the longest lease agreement – no transfer of ownership rights – in the world.

Public discussion should focus on ownership status of HDB flats which has nothing to do with lease extension, or 99-year leasehold HDB flats vs similar private property.

 

 

Phillip Ang

* The author blogs at LikeDatOsoCanMeh.

 

 

 

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22 Responses to “HDB flat ownership issue nothing to do with its 99-year lease”

  • Ong PC:

    The land belongs to the govt so it is unreasonable to ask govt give people the title deed. Because if people really hold on to the title deed for 99 years and there is not enough land, how will our govt find land to recycle for the next generation?

    Also, so what if we don’t own the HDB Flat and we are just lessees? The most important thing is we can sell the HDB in the secondary market. Just like in China, corporations and individuals do not own land but are granted land-use rights, which can be traded in secondary markets.

    Obviously HDB is not perfect and some minor tweaks can make it better. But the overall model of us leasing for 99 years works well, and no other country has yet been able to give its citizens such high-quality public housing at such affordable prices

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  • rukidding:

    ONE VERY IMPORTANT THING which all have forgotten was :….

    HDB used to be the “Banker” themselves the last time and buyers who need to take a housing loan, actually “took” loans “DIRECT” with HDB.!

    But one smart aleck “chnged the rules”……

    The “Loan default risk” has now been “transferred directly” and “falls onto those Private Banks” ( DBS,UOB,OCBC,..etc !

    So when BUYERS took loan,…HDB is the FIRST to “COLLECT THE FULL SUM”, ( b’cos private Banks will release FULL SUM to HDB”.

    So,…Ah KONG’s risk is “ZERO” ( even when you have problems and starts to default on any payment )….in simple words…you die, your business.

    Last time, under GKS days,…when you have pblms on payment and when HDB is also the Banker,…they had no choice and cannot “evict or take any stern action” ( less the G looks incompassionate )

    Now that the “LOAN” is between YOU and a PTE BANK….any “Ulgy actions” is now “left to PTE Bank and YOU”.

    So,…you see “HOW SMART OUR HIGHLY PAID CIVIL SERVANTs and Ministers” are these days.

    And to think that HDB is Public Housing, built for the public , when all they now know is to “COLLECT $$$ FIRST”,…..”Wash their Hands and prevent themselves from being “dirtied” …and ” avoiding to take the responsibility of what a GOOD G should be doing,…ie being Compassionate and to Undertand the People’s hardship !

    This is how,……over the years,….that the Leedership at the TOP has been slowly, slowly ,…but surely….”walking the path with the devils”….than what should have been….”walking an upright , decent, high morality and compassionate path”.

    Every one knows that “being Compassionate and understanding humility”…cannot make $$$$.

    Biut that is the “path and direction” any basic G should “shoulder”.

    Somehow,….after the “demise of the 1st Gen Leaders”….everything just when “crooked”….and making $$$$$ with least responsibility and morale seems to be the Order of the day !

    What a SHAME and that was also how Najib and BN “fell” !

    “Replacing New Supporters” via “quick import”…DO NOT Necessarily EQUATE to “Quick Success” for a Country…..ALL IT DOES is ONLY HELP TO ” CHEAT & SHORT CHANGE” those who has helped make the Country to what it was today and of course…IMPORTING SUPPORTERs mean “drowing out” the old supporters and MOST IMPORTANTLY….ENSURE FULL RETENTION and GRASP of POWER !

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  • Straight "A"s Marlboro Tan:

    sinkies never left the islabd and lived in other coutnries. People in other countries clearly know the difference between lease and ownership

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  • Blur sotong we are:

    It’s the political economy of right pocket paying into the left pocket and vice versa

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  • clown pap Ljs siam NSF & NSR:

    and 70% sheep living in HDB happily pay property tax when the one who is to pay is HDB.

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  • Gan Loong Ching:

    Simply put. HDB rent you the flat for 99 yrs. As the first occupant, you need to live in it for at least 5 yrs. After which you can get someone else to take over the rental. If the next lessee is willing to pay more than what you paid HDB, you may keep the profit but HDB will need to collect some ‘thank you’ money.

    The next tenant only need to stay for 30 mths, thereafter, he can transfer the rental to another person too. Same rule applies. More transfer of lessee made, more extra money HDB will collect.

    Lessee will change but owner will always be HDB. At the end of 99 yrs, see who is the unlucky last lessee to have to return the flat to HDB with kosong dollar left.

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  • oxygen:

    PEASANTS PAID FOR THE LAND, some unknown hidden entity got the title. What does that means in law?

    Ong PC: The land belongs to the govt so it is unreasonable to ask govt give people the title deed. Because if people really hold on to the title deed for 99 years and there is not enough land, how will our govt find land to recycle for the next generation?

    @PC Ong, you claimed to be an officer in SAF armoured unit Down Under, YOU MUST BE THE MOST STUPID ONE.

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  • oxygen:

    THE IRONY NOT LOST ON ME is that peasants paid capital gain tax called resale levy on a financial lease of public housing which is in material reality a long-term rental transaction.

    @PC Ong, do you pay capital gain tax on rent WHICH IS AN EXPENSE ITEM, NOT AN ASSET ITEM IN ACCOUNTING AND TAX LAW?

    If you also support this devious fiction, your mind and your mouth must be EVEN MORE STUPID than your a*us. At least your dumb ass knows how to regularly ejaculate waste of your biological manufacturing.

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  • Bapak:

    You are making yourself a fool cause of your naivety. The bar is bent, don’t argue is straight. Ah Q.

    Ong PC:
    The land belongs to the govt so it is unreasonable to ask govt give people the title deed. Because if people really hold on to the title deed for 99 years and there is not enough land, how will our govt find land to recycle for the next generation?

    Also, so what if we don’t own the HDB Flat and we are just lessees? The most important thing is we can sell the HDB in the secondary market. Just like in China, corporations and individuals do not own land but are granted land-use rights, which can be traded in secondary markets.

    Obviously HDB is not perfect and some minor tweaks can make it better. But the overall model of us leasing for 99 years works well, and no other country has yet been able to give its citizens such high-quality public housing at such affordable prices

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  • oxygen:

    @ PC Ong

    MATE, YOUR REFERENCE TO CHINESE PROPERTY LAW IN AH TIONG LAND is as dumbfarked as your fanciful excursion to Chinese feudal history of peasant enslavement.

    Ong PC: Also, so what if we don’t own the HDB Flat and we are just lessees? The most important thing is we can sell the HDB in the secondary market. Just like in China, corporations and individuals do not own land but are granted land-use rights, which can be traded in secondary markets.

    LEE-jiapore is not fiacking Ah Tiong Land, we follow Commonwealth statutory and common law precepts. And in that of a financial lease of chattel, the legal relationship between a leasor and leesee is ONE OF A BAILOR AND BAILEE in which OWNERSHIP DOES NOT TRANSFER TO LEESE. Here is my proof -

    http://www7.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/journals/UQLawJl/1973/5.html?context=1;query=financial%20lease%20%20%20+%20law%20rights%20%20;mask_path=

    And instead of farting gas here, your usual, why don’t you google the legal meaning of bailor and bailee?

    Without ownership transfer, how come -

    peasants got to pay resale levy on a chattel lease which the peasant does NOT own?

    peasants paid for land but no title to the land?

    IS THIS A SCAM OR NOT in law construct?

    You must be the dumbest army officer in town if you still have not got the correct answers to these three questions above by now.

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  • a PG:

    Yes, agree but if we don’t pay the property tax, we may end up ourselves staying in FOC “Changi hotel” !!! They have property tax laws as their weapons but we have none !

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  • LIONS:

    housing DEVELOPMENT board?
    Development?
    I see more PRs RENTING THEIR HDBs for EXTRA MONEY while living in their CONDOs;many are MALAYSIAN CHINESE working in govt agencies that make our housing n other public policies???

    I also see many SGS selling their HDBs to pay for high COL n many renting from even PRs?
    Minister LAWRENCE WONG N MENTOR KHAW N PEE-M LEE,are you so blind as not to see what i see?

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  • l'ingenieur:

    LTA owns all cars and are leasing it to you for 10 years only.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Gan Loong Ching

    MATE, MISPLACED NAIVETY – it is NOT a rental arrangement available for resale. PAPpy would like to deceive peasants with this simplicity of naivety and BY THIS DECEPTION MIRAGE of fictitious property rights of imagined transfer, they then slam peasants with capital gain tax on transfer. The HDB resale levy is ILLEGAL – it is NOT COLLECTED by IRAS, in case you haven’t noticed.

    In law, if you rent from HDB and can re-sell for value and profit (attracting resale levy for gain so it claims), I can rent your Lamborgini for a week and sell it to a millionaire son at a 10% discount and keep the proceeds. IRAS can tax me 10%, I still score a huge gain. BUT THAT WOULD BE THEFT OF PRIVATE PROPERTY.

    If you google bailor – it means person who entrust his property to another (the bailee) – THERE IS NO TRANSFER OF PROPERTY RIGHT. HDB IS STILL THE OWNER.

    How can it tax you “resale levy” as the imagined renter when it owns the HDB i.e. you got no legal property rights therein? Can you sell my Lamborghini to Ah Beng after renting from me for 1 week? I gonna sue you for theft if you dare to!!

    A property lease in law is exactly a bailor and bailee relationship – THERE IS NO PROPERTY RIGHTS TRANSFER. That is why I strongly believe the HDB resale levy is an error of fact and error of law. IT IS ILLEGAL, that is why IRAS IS SILENT AND NOT COLLECTING under prevailing tax law.

    ALSO THE INCUMBENT LEESEE MUST VACATE FIRST BEFORE THE NEXT LEESEE TAKES OVER – and that is the owner’s responsibility, risk and outcome. If the theory held by you is correct, does HDB guarantee you $$$$ price as owner if you cannot find another leesee willing to pay same $$$$ or higher?

    I BET NOT, YOU ARE WRONG AND HDB RESALE LEVY IS ILLEGAL BACKDOOR TAX OF FICTITIOUS CAPITAL GAIN when the land you paid for vaporize into fiction.

    Gan Loong Ching: Simply put. HDB rent you the flat for 99 yrs. As the first occupant, you need to live in it for at least 5 yrs. After which you can get someone else to take over the rental. If the next lessee is willing to pay more than what you paid HDB, you may keep the profit but HDB will need to collect some ‘thank you’ money.

    The next tenant only need to stay for 30 mths, thereafter, he can transfer the rental to another person too. Same rule applies. More transfer of lessee made, more extra money HDB will collect.

    Lessee will change but owner will always be HDB. At the end of 99 yrs, see who is the unlucky last lessee to have to return the flat to HDB with kosong dollar left.

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  • oute:

    l'ingenieur:
    LTA owns all cars and are leasing it to you for 10 years only.

    Yes, we have areas in Bukit Timah,can buy the land and convert to HDB flats

    Asked your MP about this..

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  • oute:

    Ong PC:
    The land belongs to the govt so it is unreasonable to ask govt give people the title deed. Because if people really hold on to the title deed for 99 years and there is not enough land, how will our govt find land to recycle for the next generation?

    Also, so what if we don’t own the HDB Flat and we are just lessees? The most important thing is we can sell the HDB in the secondary market. Just like in China, corporations and individuals do not own land but are granted land-use rights, which can be traded in secondary markets.

    Obviously HDB is not perfect and some minor tweaks can make it better. But the overall model of us leasing for 99 years works well, and no other country has yet been able to give its citizens such high-quality public housing at such affordable prices

    We have land at Istana,Bukit Timah, Mountbatten etc…

    Why let few people live in houses when thousands can live on that piece of land

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  • oxygen:

    @ lingenieur

    YES, THIS IS ACTUALITY OF OUTCOME – that is why Ah Tiong Land is the same in big cities now I believe or contemplating the same. It CAN NEVER APPLY in EU, North America and Down Under because it violates property rights law and opens up a can of worms like HDB leasing agreement WITHOUT TRANSFER OF PROPERTY RIGHTS. LAWRENCE WONG ASSURED ALL PEASANTS – at the end of 99-yr lease, it will be taken back for zero value.

    WHO IN LAW HAS THAT RIGHTS TO TAKE IT BACK IN A BAILOR/BAILEE ARRANGEMENT OF A CHATTEL (property) leasing agreement? IT MUST BE THE REAL OWNER!! Otherwise binary of outcome is a ‘THIEF’!!

    IF AND WHEN THE RIGHTFUL OWNER at the end of the lease takes it back LAWFULLY, and the occupants refused to vacate – the OCCUPANTS THEN IN FACT AND IN LAW are BURGLARS in crime.

    WE ARE ALREADY TOLD OF “excellent” commendation from PRESENT TENSE in that political zoo that CPF is NOT our money.

    Now we are told HDB has zero value at lease expiry – otherwise our children/grandchildren are burglar at law.

    IS THE ASSET ENHANCEMENT POLITICS A ROTTEN SCAM OR NOT when you are not the owner but a BAILEE ONLY for 99 yr or lesser?

    PEASANTS ARE ASKED TO BE THANKFUL FOR THE CAPITAL GAIN TAX OF RESALE LEVY FOR “RESALE PROFIT”?

    I DID LIKE TO ASK THIS QUESTION TO ALL PAPpys – who is the LAST SUCKER in this game of musical chair?

    THE 70% DAFT ARE TOO STUPID TO EVEN BEGIN TO DISCOVER THEY ARE STUPID TO IMPOSSIBILITY.

    l'ingenieur: LTA owns all cars and are leasing it to you for 10 years only.

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  • Tremendous:

    Just need to refer to the Straits Times and New Paper these two weeks. They used the words ‘buying homes’ instead of leasing homes. Did the journalist or editor get rapped or did they get to keep their jobs after wagging their tails ? No lack of fake news on this land which membrers of a certain party keeps quiet about.

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  • John Lim:

    Everybody knows what is a “99 year lease”. But why tout “asset enhancement” when you know that its value will eventually be zero? And to impose capital gain tax (called resale levy) and property tax, coupled with the incessant (misleading) allegation of “asset enhancement”,
    you have people believing that HDB flat is no different than a free-hold property!

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  • nizhemoshou:

    Even if bloody blood suckers pap leeders are willing to extend the lease , so what? Fat hope if they will extend it for free or for less than the prevailing market rate. So it is like HDB lessees having to buy back their flats if they are allowed to continue possession of their flats.

    Does pap idea of making car owners buy back their cars if they want to continue to use the car after it is 10yrs old not sounds familiar?

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  • oxygen:

    @
    @
    @ Nizhemoshou.

    @ Nizhemoshou. THAT IS GUARANTEED NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. PAPpy Wong have already spoke that at the end of the lease expiry, your flat reverts back to HDB for zero value. The implied and construct at law of PAPpys determination is that, all along, HDB is the owner of all public housing flat because at lease expiry, it cannot revert to a void entity or an abstraction. It can only be returned to its original and life-long owner – HDB. And by that determination, all public housing occupants, however fictitious labeled as leesees or permitted occupiers, are all bailees whose occupancy resided at the sole consent, pleasure and the whimsical will of the bailor (HDB). All the peasants have been conned wholesale – duped and led by their noses to their exploited extinction of irrelevance – at life ending or lease expiry, whichever comes earlier. Who is paying for a lease of say 17 years left on the public housing flat if the last surviving legal leesee passed on, knowing that PAPpy is going to take that back for zero compensation?

    Remember I illuminated above of law weblink – a chattel (in law it is property) lease agreement is in fact and in law – a bailor and bailee relationship. There is no title ownership transfer which adequately explains why at lease expiry, your public housing flat reverts to its SILENT BAILOR/OWNER – which is HDB of PAPpy Wong’s confirmation.

    This is unlike a hire-purchase agreement in which the owner of the chattel leased out agreed to sell to the user (bailee) at a price and term agreed to as between them AT THE TIME OF CONTRACT SIGNING. That is not what happened in your public housing lease agreement. PAPpy is CUNNINGLY SILENT – in law term, it is always let the buyer beware. If you are stupid and gullible of naivety trusting of PAPpys cunning, it is the PEASANT’S RICHLY DESERVED JUST DESSERTS.

    nizhemoshou: Even if bloody blood suckers pap leeders are willing to extend the lease , so what? Fat hope if they will extend it for free or for less than the prevailing market rate. So it is like HDB lessees having to buy back their flats if they are allowed to continue possession of their flats.

    Does pap idea of making car owners buy back their cars if they want to continue to use the car after it is 10yrs old not sounds familiar?

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  • oxygen:

    @ Nizhemoshou

    PAPpys modus operandi works from these principles – we do what we like, never mind what the people think and we do what is convenient, never mind what the law says. HDB’s leasing agreement really lives up to that authoritative command. It displays a whole gamut of windy happy contradiction. Is the HDB lease agreement a pretension of long-term rental agreement i.e. a financial lease akin to expensive capital equipment leasing in industrial/construction application with no transfer of ownership rights as the leased equipment belongs to the leasor in contract law? Or is it an operating lease of a hire-purchase agreement in which the leasor has the property rights but that REVERTS TO THE HIRER (lessee) AT ENTIRELY THE SOLE OPTION OF THE LEESEE AT THE LEASE EXPIRY? That is the property rights is vested in the leasor but only extends to and ends at the point of hire-purchase lease agreement (if the leesee exercise his right to take legal ownership possession at a pre-agreed price negotiated as between the parties at the time of the initial lease contract.)

    The accounting and law treatment is also different between a financial and operating lease. In financial lease, the leased equipment is the legal asset and ownership of the leasor. In the leasor’s balance sheet, the leased equipment is accounted for as one of its asset, and tax allows for depreciation offset. In the leesee book of financial lease, all lease payments (rentals) are tax allowable deduction. It is not in its asset account as the leased equipment belong to leasor. The same goes for operating lease until the leesee exercised his ownership rights at lease expiry.

    In LEE-jiapore, lessee of HDB pays property tax – pretentiously at least – of IRAS recognition of ownership same as owners of private condo BUT PRIVATE CONDOS havee en bloc rights proof of legal ownership but this is EXCLUDED OF LESSEE of HDB proving the emptiness of legal ownership of property rights. That is, lessee of HDB flats are bailee and leesee of operating lease BUT WITHOUT THE RIGHTS OF OWNERSHIP CONVERSION AT LEASE EXPIRY.

    So IRAS treatment of tax credit/liability differs from HDB with regards to HDB’s leasing contracts. IRAS says HDB is “owned” by lessee AND MUST BE TAXED but HDB’s lease contract says IT IS THE OPPOSITE AND NOT EVEN IS AN OPERATING LEASE. If it is an operating lease, then the mortgage payment must be tax deductible as it is rental expenses paid to the owner (HDB)?

    IS THIS A SCAM or a violation of tax law application of leasing contract?

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