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Bride’s family asked for RMB 500,000 in bride price

Contrary to popular beliefs, many couples in China are unable to afford to get married. With the exception of rural villages, those in the cities mostly asked for hundreds of thousands in bride price (聘礼/彩礼).

According to our techie who has been in China for over a decade, the bride price may include monies intended for the bride's family members. Example would be for her parent's old-age upkeeping, her brother's marriage, just to name two.

As a result, most did not get to marry their "first choice".




In this snippet of a video provided by our techie, the bride's family asked for RMB500,000 in bride price, resulting in the groom not being able to proceed with the marriage.

The agreed bride price was not RMB 500,000 initially, it was adjusted at the last minute.




If you were the groom, what would you do?

 

yyy
READER COMMENTS BELOW

54 Responses to “Bride’s family asked for RMB 500,000 in bride price”

  • Avoid:

    This kind of man, cannot groom him. One quarrel, he jumps on another woman.

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  • @Avoid

    If the groom has the ability, I am sure he would have no issue. Unfortunately, he does not and cannot afford to, without any options, what else can he do?

    If I were in the same situation, I would have left immediately. Who I marry later is another matter.

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  • Avoid:

    That’s probably the right move.

    TRE Tech:
    @Avoid

    If the groom has the ability, I am sure he would have no issue. Unfortunately, he does not and cannot afford to, without any options, what else can he do?

    If I were in the same situation, I would have left immediately. Who I marry later is another matter.

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  • @Avoid

    For info sake, the highest standard for bride money in China is actually in GuanXi, anyhow hamtam also in the 7 figures.

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  • Extortion:

    What a bunch of mother and daughter extortionists.

    The groom did the right thig not to marry her.

    After the wedding whole life earn money for the women to spend.

    Man become money shaking tree.

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  • 真悲哀。:

    “茶茶爱看剧”,这是什么碗糕?

    大陆版的琼瑶剧?琼瑶会不会高茶茶抄袭?

    不过,深入思考,新娘和她妈妈的行为真的很像某个地方的在野党,一切都以钱为基础,真悲哀!

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  • Observer:

    Australians grumbled that uneducated Aboriginal single mothers would try to claim more welfare by having more children.

    Australians said aboriginal single mothers would offer free, unprotected sex with strangers in order to conceive babies.

    A well-intentioned policy with un-intended consequences.

    How would conservative societies think about this?

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  • From my experience and interactions, most of the females in such a situation will ALMOST always listen to their parents. They ALMOST always leave the decision to their parents and rarely dare oppose or make their own decision as far as marriage is concerned, resulting in failed marriages. Some rebelled and ‘eloped’ and started their own life, but these couples are very very very rare.

    One of my wife’s single younger cousin brother went through such ordeal 3 times before he finally got married during the 4th “meeting”.

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  • Singaporean R Free Rider:

    Hahaha…I had said here many many times.
    Americunt and Chinacunt are both same same, Money face.

    Americunt is more direct, Americunt say it directly, In Money We Tru$t.

    But Chinacunt pretend and the Chinese make a long winded way saying “It doesn’t matter whether a rat is black or white, as long as it steals money.”

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  • Curious:

    Do anyone else read the title as

    Biden family ask for 500,000 in bribe?

    hahaha

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  • Useful reference:

    Techie’s wife is a citizen there.

    Perhaps Techie could share with us the “bride price “ he paid? It would be a useful reference in case we also get very lucky to tight knots with ladies from mainland China.

    Tech: I was in ShenZhen when I met my wife in 2006, who was then a production worker in a factory making RMB 400 a month. We were already cohabitating together when we decided to “migrate” back to her hometown in Hubei, and since she was already “mine”, her parents were very understanding and I gave them RMB$28,000 and they reciprocate with RMB 10,000. It can be said that I was lucky. Nowadays, even in the remotest of village, unless exceptional circumstances, one can expect the “bride money” to be at least 5 figure range (if you are lucky), the norm is 6 figure even for a Tier 3 city.

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  • No:

    Original Australian women say “no-color” men rape them and run off. They say police do the same.

    Observer:
    Australians grumbled that uneducated Aboriginal single mothers would try to claim more welfare by having more children.

    Australians said aboriginal single mothers would offer free, unprotected sex with strangers in order to conceive babies.

    A well-intentioned policy with un-intended consequences.

    How would conservative societies think about this?

    GD Star Rating
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  • Singaporean R Free Rider:

    Hahaha…I had said here many many times.
    Americunt and Chinacunt are both same same, Money face.

    Americunt is more direct, Americunt say it directly, In Money We Tru$t.

    But Chinacunt pretend and the Chinese make a long winded way saying
    “It doesn’t matter whether a rat is black or white, as long as it steals money.”

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  • Chinbobian:

    No wonder their population is shrinking!

    Useful reference:
    Techie’s wife is a citizen there.

    Perhaps Techie could share with us the “bride price “ he paid? It would be a useful reference in case we also get very lucky to tight knots with ladies from mainland China.

    Tech: I was in ShenZhen when I met my wife in 2006, who was then a production worker in a factory making RMB 400 a month. We were already cohabitating together when we decided to “migrate” back to her hometown in Hubei, and since she was already “mine”, her parents were very understanding and I gave them RMB$28,000 and they reciprocate with RMB 10,000. It can be said that I was lucky. Nowadays, even in the remotest of village, unless exceptional circumstances, one can expect the “bride money” to be at least 5 figure range (if you are lucky), the norm is 6 figure even for a Tier 3 city.

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  • Singleporeans:

    Muslims don’t have to spend so much to get married. A simple wedding is just about $15k-20k. That’s why the median age of the bridegroom is 27. Some parents don’t even bother about the dowry, so long the marriage is legitimate and a blissful one. Blessed is the word.

    What’s the point of spending lavishly? Status? Why make it so burdensome for a couple to get married legitimately? Blame the elaborate traditional rituals.

    What if the marriage is short-lived? Worst still if they divorce. All the money spent become meaningless.

    Simon says Think! for your own good. Care not about what others say.

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  • Sporeans Keep Govt Employed:

    Add on to your comment…

    There are Christians in the civil service like to act holier than thou or sanctimonious and even self righteous.

    Work disagreement must bring in God and Jesus. As if to appease their guilty conscience and appear saintly.

    These people like to make other people’s life difficult at work. But attend church on Sundays as if nothing happened.

    They are also money faced, status conscious, snobbish, proud and arrogant. Same as a lot of people of other religions. Zero humility but expect lower rungs to bow and scrape before them. And like to act as though they are above it.

    They like to nitpick and/or character assassinate. Always hold other people’s past against them. You cannot start on a clean slate if you join their organization because they expect you to be perfect while they are not. At the same time they display less than desirable characteristics. Or even outright contemptible behavior.

    That’s why churches are filled with hypocrites. Why do you think fewer people are attending? Because they see Christians don’t practice what the Bible preaches. And they use it as a tool to thumb down others.

    Singaporean R Free Rider:
    Hahaha…I had said here many many times.
    Americunt and Chinacunt are both same same, Money face.

    Americunt is more direct, Americunt say it directly, In Money We Tru$t.

    But Chinacunt pretend and the Chinese make a long winded way saying
    “It doesn’t matter whether a rat is black or white, as long as it steals money.”

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  • Sporeans Keep Govt Employed:

    A man is expected to go out and earn money.

    But there is no stigma for women to take money from men. In fact, it’s socially accepted.

    Women are very cunning. Men have to give them money and yet women make decisions for the households.

    A lot of women cannot cook, cannot do housework, expect all the 5Cs, everyday shake leg, shove everything she doesn’t like to the maid and just take $$$ from husband or BF.

    I once had a guy friend who said with male pride :”I work hard so she (GF) can spend.” I just did not want to share my thoughts since it might offend.

    Singaporean R Free Rider:
    Hahaha…I had said here many many times.
    Americunt and Chinacunt are both same same, Money face.

    Americunt is more direct, Americunt say it directly, In Money We Tru$t.

    But Chinacunt pretend and the Chinese make a long winded way saying
    “It doesn’t matter whether a rat is black or white, as long as it steals money.”

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  • @Chinbobian

    I wouldn’t disagree at all with you.

    “Bride price” in a Village is 5 figures, city is 6 figures onwards and the 6 figures are just the “normal”, it can go up to 7 figures if you add in the car, apartment and whatnots. So a normal man simply cannot afford to get married, imagine forking out millions just to ‘buy’ a female partner.

    Although most parents do prepare some cash for their sons to get married, but at 7 figures, how many families can really afford that? So what happened is that you have tons of single males going after a handful of available females that are “reasonable” in their asking, while those highly educated and asking for the sky females are shunned resulting in these females being termed “剩女”.

    But then China being a Chinese society, means that singles are still being pressured into getting married, so as long as one remains single, there will be tons of pressure from family and friends to get married. Whether they can afford to get married or not is irrelevant.

    So now there are places where a new thingy/trend is emerging in “拼婚”. Simply put, if say both me and a single female are under pressure to get married, then we both agree to “拼婚”, we register our marriage officially but we do not consummate the marriage. We may live together (depending on arrangements), but we go AA and agree to a case of to each his/her own. Marriage is only for show and we live as if we were never married, minding our own business.

    P/S: I have inserted another video to better reflect the situation on “bride money” that many are struggling with.

    @Sporeans Keep Govt Employed

    I heard that many of these civil service Christians go to the Kong Hee Fatt Choy church where China Wine is served. There are even Millisters Christians that worship that church too, no?

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  • Singaporean R Free Rider:

    Useful reference:
    Techie’s wife is a citizen there.

    Perhaps Techie could share with us the “bride price “ he paid? It would be a useful reference in case we also get very lucky to tight knots with ladies from mainland China.

    Tech: I was in ShenZhen when I met my wife in 2006, who was then a production worker in a factory making RMB 400 a month. We were already cohabitating together when we decided to “migrate” back to her hometown in Hubei, and since she was already “mine”, her parents were very understanding and I gave them RMB$28,000 and they reciprocate with RMB 10,000. It can be said that I was lucky. Nowadays, even in the remotest of village, unless exceptional circumstances, one can expect the “bride money” to be at least 5 figure range (if you are lucky), the norm is 6 figure even for a Tier 3 city.

    Tech, please don’t anyhow give advise.

    Only Money face Han people ask for money …like my mother money face village people always ask for money when she goes back.

    The minorities is Ok.
    https://shorturl.asia/VfYTW

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  • @Singaporean R Free Rider

    Please hor, I wasn’t giving any advice. I was merely sharing what I know to be the practice that is currently in place.

    Of course there may be some who choose not to receive any bride price, but I am not aware of anyone that has done that.

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  • Chinese anti-Chinese:

    Now we know why you are so antiChinese. All the village girls, young and old, laugh at you.

    Singaporean R Free Rider: Only Money face Han people ask for money …like my mother money face village people always ask for money when she goes back.

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  • rice:

    Bride money sounds like BRIBE MONEY?
    Anyways,we Asians are not extreme.
    Many years ago,I was in Chiangmai,Thailand on a tour with my wife.
    We were booking some personal tours.
    We chanced upon a really old Angmoh,the ugly sort,with his “wife” ,probably 16 years of age and no more.
    He was returning to Angmoh country with this young gal,sent off by the gal’s father who looked much younger than the angmoh.
    This young gal looked sad and hapless as she looked into our faces.
    We could sense her despair.

    God knows what happened.
    In $g,young couples face more financial stress.
    What with costly wedding banquets and sky-high prices of HDB?

    Bride money of RMB 500K looks like peanuts compared to what young sgs are facing.
    Maybe the G can operate “wedding banquet business” at a fraction of what private sector is charging?
    But most of all,the G could ,more honestly,start with REGULARISING HDB prices and then REGULATE to CAP HDB prices.
    Pegging NEW HDB TO SECONDARY MARKET IS SIMPLY UNETHICAL.
    THE G NEEDS TO ADOPT MORE INTEGRITY.
    THIS IS WHAT IS GRAVELY MISSING AND LACKING IN OUR PUBLIC POLICY PRACTICES.

    Yes,a marriage is sacred act between a man and his woman.
    TRE Tech’s in-laws were gracious.
    And, to have to start married life with a heap of financial burden is unhealthy and likely to bring about couple conflict and divorces.
    Of course,adultery is another issue.
    But which “poor” woman fault her filthy rich husband???

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  • Chinhoseh:

    “Sex is the strongest drive”.

    If this is guided and well regulated, it is the strongest force to move the society forward.

    Just wish them well and be counted in all aspects of world affairs.

    TRE Tech:
    @Chinbobian

    I wouldn’t disagree at all with you.

    “Bride price” in a Village is 5 figures, city is 6 figures onwards and the 6 figures are just the “normal”, it can go up to 7 figures if you add in the car, apartment and whatnots. So a normal man simply cannot afford to get married, imagine forking out millions just to ‘buy’ a female partner.

    Although most parents do prepare some cash for their sons to get married, but at 7 figures, how many families can really afford that? So what happened is that you have tons of single males going after a handful of available females that are “reasonable” in their asking, while those highly educated and asking for the sky females are shunned resulting in these females being termed “剩女”.

    But then China being a Chinese society, means that singles are still being pressured into getting married, so as long as one remains single, there will be tons of pressure from family and friends to get married. Whether they can afford to get married or not is irrelevant.

    So now there are places where a new thingy/trend is emerging in “拼婚”. Simply put, if say both me and a single female are under pressure to get married, then we both agree to “拼婚”, we register our marriage officially but we do not consummate the marriage. We may live together (depending on arrangements), but we go AA and agree to a case of to each his/her own. Marriage is only for show and we live as if we were never married, minding our own business.

    P/S: I have inserted another video to better reflect the situation on “bride money” that many are struggling with.

    @Sporeans Keep Govt Employed

    I heard that many of these civil service Christians go to the Kong Hee Fatt Choy church where China Wine is served. There are even Millisters Christians that worship that church too, no?

    GD Star Rating
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  • Man complicate their life:

    Singleporeans:
    Muslims don’t have to spend so much to get married. A simple wedding is just about $15k-20k. That’s why the median age of the bridegroom is 27. Some parents don’t even bother about the dowry, so long the marriage is legitimate and a blissful one. Blessed is the word.

    What’s the point of spending lavishly? Status? Why make it so burdensome for a couple to get married legitimately? Blame the elaborate traditional rituals.

    What if the marriage is short-lived? Worst still if they divorce. All the money spent become meaningless.

    Simon says Think! for your own good. Care not about what others say.

    Material world makes a man’s life topsy-turvy.
    Man complicates his life by succumbing to it.
    Do away with wasteful customs which are no more relevant in the present world. Life will be blissful.

    Be contented and prudent. It’s needs above wants.

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  • Sporeans Keep Govt Employed:

    I know many Christians are employed in civil service across many churches. Eg worked with some from that homophobic church.

    Thing is the Church AND Govt ARE VERY SIMILAR. Both keep their people under watchful eyes. The church does this with cell groups and if you have worked for civil service, they’ll tell you you are being watched – as in surveillance type. Like you take leave, you have to tell them what you will be doing, where you are going. If you are travelling, you have to leave them you overseas address.

    Both Churches and Govt are autocratic and expect total obedience. That is why it is not surprising to me many civil servants are also Christians.

    Fear of God is a good thing but it also translates to fear of authority.

    TRE Tech:

    @Sporeans Keep Govt Employed

    I heard that many of these civil service Christians go to the Kong Hee Fatt Choy church where China Wine is served. There are even Millisters Christians that worship that church too, no?

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  • Sporeans Keep Govt Employed:

    Chinese all want face one la. Void deck wedding will be the target of derision and mockery. It means bor lui.

    Chinese are also hao lian – look down on the lowly, worship the mighty types.

    One thing true about Malay weddings – not enough food. Because most of the food will go to the couple and their close relatives. Very little left for others. That’s why cheap present will suffice.

    Singleporeans:
    Muslims don’t have to spend so much to get married. A simple wedding is just about $15k-20k. That’s why the median age of the bridegroom is 27. Some parents don’t even bother about the dowry, so long the marriage is legitimate and a blissful one. Blessed is the word.

    What’s the point of spending lavishly? Status? Why make it so burdensome for a couple to get married legitimately? Blame the elaborate traditional rituals.

    What if the marriage is short-lived? Worst still if they divorce. All the money spent become meaningless.

    Simon says Think! for your own good. Care notabout what others say.

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  • Sporeans Keep Govt Employed:

    Your mongrel supporters si bey bo liao.

    Purposely stand behind me in the queue and then talk loudly. Like I said b4, bo chi say directly. Always drop hints. Even animals will laugh at them.

    No money to spend at HANS, only can afford coffee. Why not go to hawker center and ten claim from your master?

    Singaporean R Free Rider: Tech, please don’t anyhow give advise.

    Only Money face Han people ask for money …like my mother money face village people always ask for money when she goes back.

    The minorities is Ok.
    https://shorturl.asia/VfYTW

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  • PAP mandate strong:

    Well! I dont mean any ill intentions. Kind of a silly joke.

    PRC guy marry PRC girl, muz give bride price.
    So marry a indian girl, its the other way around. Indian girl family muz give dowry.

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  • PAP mandate strong:

    @ Do away with wasteful customs which are no more relevant in the present world. Life will be blissful.

    Yeah. I agreed but tell it to pro china fans first. What bring back confucius teachings ?

    You just look at our chinese funeral and compared to the India, muslims and christians. You get your answer.

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  • Singaporean R Free Rider:

    Chinese anti-Chinese:
    Now we know why you are so antiChinese. All the village girls, young and old, laugh at you.

    You are an idiot with an oversize ego which caused the death of JC students.
    https://shorturl.asia/8NkRS

    Let the village girls, young and old, laugh at me. I don’t need any ball licking.

    I am ok with it ‘cos I save on ang pow money.

    Tech: Please make today 22/4 Tampines accident headlines. The magnitude of it is the same as the Tanjong Pagar BMW crash and burned.

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  • Singaporean R Free Rider:

    Sporeans Keep Govt Employed:
    A man is expected to go out and earn money.

    But there is no stigma for women to take money from men. In fact, it’s socially accepted.

    Women are very cunning. Men have to give them money and yet women make decisions for the households.

    A lot of women cannot cook, cannot do housework, expect all the 5Cs, everyday shake leg, shove everything she doesn’t like to the maid and just take $$$ from husband or BF.

    Yes, and women had the audacity to talk about equality without shame.

    Sporeans Keep Govt Employed:
    I once had a guy friend who said with male pride :”I work hard so she (GF) can spend.” I just did not want to share my thoughts since it might offend.

    Either your friend is a good carrot head or he is the old traditional type of guy who hold them man bring food to the table while wife make the house.

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  • Singaporean R Free Rider:

    Man complicate their life: Material world makes a man’s life topsy-turvy.
    Man complicates his life by succumbing to it.

    Agreed.

    You don’t have to feel inferior when you don’t have what others have.

    No need to keep up with the Joneses. THE JONESES ARE BROKE!! No need to try to be like them!

    Man complicate their life:
    Do away with wasteful customs which are no more relevant in the present world. Life will be blissful.

    Be contented and prudent. It’s needs above wants.

    Well said. Very good advice.

    Get rid of wasteful customs which are no more relevant in the present world.
    (burn paper iPhone 15, paper aeroplane, paper Bungalow etc)

    Life will be blissful.

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  • Relax:

    @TRE Tech

    In China if husband owes money, does the wife has to bear the responsibility?

    If the answer is yes, then wife also suffer if husband borrows money for ‘bride price’.

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  • rice:

    So,i see some finger-pointing at “customs” like those anti-chinese here.
    Nothing wrong with customs.
    In facf,Chinese “ORIGINAL” customs are some of the best and most cultured.
    What is misguided are the “attitudes” towards suxh well-intended customs.
    GREED IS THE CULPRIT.
    In the past,many sg-chinese held their wedding banquets in their “kampongs’ and they were very affordable.

    It is in recent times that people become more lavish and squander.
    Blame the boastful people and the greedy “operators”.
    But most sgs are still very much unaware that the G could have the POWER TO VEER AND INFLUENCE behaviour.
    A G THAT IA GREEDY SETS A VERY BAD EXAMPLE TO BUSINESSES.
    IF G CAN CHARGE HIGHER N HIGHER “PRICES”,WHY CANT WE?

    GREED IS A VICIOU$ CYCLE.
    ARROGANCE TOO.
    GO FIGURE.
    HDB 5 ROOM AT $1.3M ,$cary?
    Soon,you see $1.5M,$1.7M and even $2M if the G CONtiues the way it conducts “bu$ine$$!
    The G sets the “TONE” for society.
    And,if GREEDY BUSINESSMEN follow suit,the oitcome$ are obvious.

    So,STOP BLAMING CHINESE CULTURE.
    FILIAL PIETY WAS NEVER MIND TO BE IRRATIONALLY EXUBERRANT NOR A LOVELY WEDDING TO BE TURMED INTO A MERE TRAN$ACTION.
    .

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  • rice:

    Tell you what is WA$TEFUL “CU$TOM”.
    FIREWORK$ DI$PLAY$ like at ND celebrations ,etc.
    The money could be used to give gifts to our elderly poor,as National Day Custom,for example.
    A few minutes,million$ burn away and for what SOCIAL BENEFIT?

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  • Sporeans Keep Govt Employed:

    Yes the Christian women I worked for/with in the school are the most shameless and sexist and nasty smelling pieces of puppy dung. Whatever they don’t like to do, they’ll look for someone else to do it. Usually they find a guy and then insist he has to do it. BECAUSE IF THE GUY REFUSE, BOTH WOMEN AND MEN WILL THINK LESSER OF HIM.

    Which brings me to your second point. Lots of women like to rely on men for easy money. All they have to do is ask. So all these lazy women feel threatened by the gay movement. Because if their men all become gay, then the women will not have an ATM machine by their side for easy access. That is why women like men like my friend. Old fashioned men will take care of them, give them cash. They can shake legs and maybe spread them once in a while.

    The men always have to be gentlemanly and cater to women while local women are not even refined ladies like those trained in London finishing school to have manners. When a gentleman shows manners, ladies must also show manners. Not demand that guys should be this and that and do this and that.

    One thing I realize about women, they’ll marry an ugly toad as long as the toad got lots of money. Being mistresses, concubines, members of harems also ok as long as the cash is there. They are that lazy.

    How not to despise such women?

    Singaporean R Free Rider: Yes, and women had the audacity to talk about equality without shame.

    Either your friend is a good carrot head or he is the old traditional type of guy who hold them man bring food to the table while wife make the house.

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  • Sporeans Keep Govt Employed:

    Kudos to the guys in the second video who told their GFs to go shove it up their …

    Listen to Wham/George Michael’s Everything She Wants. About a money grab wh$re of a GF.

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  • @Relax

    The simple answer is “YES”.

    They have debatable laws that say once married UNLESS there is a pre-nuptial agreement made BEFORE the marriage, EVERYTHING that is acquired BEFORE and DURING the marriage is “共享” and “婚后” and that includes debts that are incurred DURING the marriage.

    To illustrate, if I borrowed from the bank to buy a house for my mistress, my wife is equally liable even if she did not sign as a guarantor or borrower. Additionally, since the house was bought AFTER our marriage, even if the first payment is solely made by me and the loan taken by me, the house is “婚后” property and my wife automatically “共享” (co-owns) it, EVEN IF it is registered solely in my mistress’s name. If my wife sues for the return of the house, her chance of winning the suit is 99.99%.

    While debatable this law is, it would, however, benefit the party who married a already very loaded spouse because of the “共享” element. So say I am very loaded and my wife, WITHOUT my permission, STOLE the diamonds in my safe to spend, buy this and that, there is NOTHING I can do even because she technically “共享” everything I have AFTER marriage. Remember that EVERYTHING I made BEFORE the marriage automatically becomes “共享” and “婚后” AFTER the marriage, with some exceptions (eg: trust).

    Plainly put, a spouse cannot be said to have STOLEN from one another because everything AFTER marriage is “共享”, one cannot be accused of stealing one’s own property, right?

    If you need more sibei tulang examples, please let me know.

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  • Sporeans Keep Govt Employed:

    Kid cycles into car turning into Cuppage Road, dad scolds driver, ‘What the f*ck is your problem?’

    Cyclist even said it’s a “crosswalk”

    https://mothership.sg/2024/04/kid-cyclist-tbone-car-orchard/

    Singaporean R Free Rider: You are an idiot with an oversize ego which caused the death of JC students.
    https://shorturl.asia/8NkRS

    Let the village girls, young and old, laugh at me. I don’t need any ball licking.

    I am ok with it ‘cos I save on ang pow money.

    Tech: Please make today 22/4 Tampines accident headlines. The magnitude of it is the same as the Tanjong Pagar BMW crash and burned.

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  • 夫债妻偿:

    http://will.china.com.cn/2023-01/05/content_42176338.htm

    China laws on this need to be modernized. A scamming/cheating partner can easily land the spouse in deep trouble. In marriage and even after divorce.

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  • @夫债妻偿

    Yup, now you understand why I say it is a “debatable” law?

    This is a true case of “till death do we part” for a divorce does not mean a clean break, only in death then it will be.

    That is also the reason why many just don’t bother with a divorce, can just go hanky pankying around since it is not an offence to be bedding someone else’s wife or husband. So unless the aggrieved party is certain that there will not be such encumbrances and wants to divorce to marry some other person, most would not be bothered with a paper divorce. I have a few real-life examples I can quote, but would leave it for another day.

    That brings me to another interesting observation about sleeping with other’s spouse. The Chinese law does NOT allow an aggrieved party to (civil) sue a spouse’s mistress/lover for damages EVEN IF he/she OPENLY admits to the relationship, gets pregnant and delivers a not-your baby. In other words, if some male slept with your wife, you ABSOLUTELY lan lan. There is nothing you can do about it except cry father and cry mother. You not happy you go hamtam him/her, you go to prison and pay for damages and they continue to bonk each other while you are serving time.

    Such an affair is ONLY beneficial to the aggrieved party in divorce proceedings (ground for divorce) and MAYBE asset allocation (+- 10%), NOTHING ELSE.

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  • PAP mandate strong:

    @ In facf,Chinese “ORIGINAL” customs are some of the best and most cultured.

    Thats not true.
    Original customs ( today already change alot ) for funeral 守孝三年, hair cannot cut, beard moustache all cannot shave, cannot bath ( 听说以前蒙古人一年才洗三次澡 ), cannot change clothings, even if you are a official high rank like minister you also have to quit, 穿麻布衣服, sleep on the 泥土 ground nearby the tomb, cannot drink beer, cannot have sex, no entertainment ( cannot look at your mobile phone ), plus most important muz cry kpkb ……..

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  • SINGAROAR:

    What happened to women’s power to earn their own income? This claim of RB500,000 as dowry without which no marriage is an insult to all women.Supposed to be a beautiful day but spoilt by the mother-in-law to be and the bride also refused to stand up for her man.Nowdays my advice to couples is to live together for at least 3 years before getting married.
    This is the only way you can discover each others roots and whether you want to remain together.

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  • Jokeress:

    Not true. Like that, no prince could have their emperor.
    听说, 听说, believe in 听说.

    PAP mandate strong:
    @ In facf,Chinese “ORIGINAL” customs are some of the best and most cultured.

    Thats not true.
    Original customs ( today already change alot ) for funeral 守孝三年, hair cannot cut, beard moustache all cannot shave, cannot bath ( 听说以前蒙古人一年才洗三次澡 ), cannot change clothings, even if you are a official high rank like minister you also have to quit, 穿麻布衣服, sleep on the 泥土 ground nearby the tomb, cannot drink beer, cannot have sex, no entertainment ( cannot look at your mobile phone ), plus most important muz cry kpkb ……..

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  • In China, there are 2 kind of single ‘candidates’ that nobody dares or wants to marry.

    1. 妈宝: 开口闭口就是”我妈说…..”
    2. 扶弟魔: 开口闭口就是”我弟弟…”

    No price for guessing why. lol

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  • PAP mandate strong:

    True or not ? Baidu can check.

    https://m.sohu.com/a/713236873_120583590/?pvid=000115_3w_a
    亲人过世,守孝一般要多久?都有什么禁忌?

    Emperor or prince 皇家 forever the exception.

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  • Relax:

    @夫债妻偿
    @TRE Tech
    “在国外,公民如果遇到类似的问题,往往通过信托的方法来规避。”陈凯律师说,这就是将主要财产交给信托公司,信托内的财产的归属可以约定和调整。

    他说,最重要的是,信托内的财产是“隔离”的,这一点在国内也同样适用。“比如海南江燕的那种案子,如果在负债之前,她将一部分财产转移到信托当中,就可以起到隔离自身和配偶债务的效果。根据中国的信托法第17条,除了一些法律所规定的特定情形,对于信托财产不得强制执行。如果违反该规定强制执行了信托财产,委托人、受托人或者受益人有权向人民法院提出异议。”

    Thanks for the info.
    I don’t understand this part. Does it mean that if this woman’s asset are transferred to trust, then the creditors are not able to touch her asset?
    But does it mean that she also can escape the debt responsibility?
    Then again, people will make use of this loophole?

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  • @Relax

    Remember I said in the past I have a retired prosecutor in the same estate where I am living in that used to be in the AGC? I was also curious about the trust thingy then, so I had asked her during a family dinner and this is what she said, if I understand her correctly.

    I will try to cite an example to better illustrate:

    Say both me and my wife are very loaded, and are worth $10 million combined and we have a son. Since we are running a very huge business and there is always risk involved of unpredictable consequences, both of us decided to isolate the risk and we set up a trust for $6 million in our son’s name, with our son being the beneficiary when he reaches 21.

    Say one day our business failed and we went into debt owing $20 million to others. What our creditors can do is liquidate our business and everything in OUR name, but NOT the $6 million in the trust, it is untouchable (with some exceptions, mostly on criminal activities).

    Now trust being trust, the trust can still run (new) business and can still be invested to make money, and both my wife and I can remain gainfully employed in the new business drawing salaries, right? There are of course many things that can be done, but I think you get the picture.

    Should one day we decide to divorce each other, ANY (even banks) of our creditors still CANNOT touch the $6 million in the trust UNLESS it is canceled. It applies to combined or individual debt that we incurred during the marriage. But then divorce would be meaningless since we are fed well by the income from the trust, agree?

    Now here’s the part that needs clarification. There is no bankruptcy laws in China for individual debtors, so one remains liable for LIFE on his/her judgement debt (already determined by courts). The only way out of being a judgement debtor is upon death or when the debt is forgiven (bank writes off debt, for example). So CANNOT touch the trust does not mean that there is no debt, just that there are no executable assets to satisfy the judgement debts.

    According to law, the period for execution of debt is 2 years upon judgement. So once a judgement has been entered, the creditor has 2 years to ask for execution (执行) or kiss the judgement goodbye. That means if I have a house, then the creditor MUST ask the court to ganish and auction it within 2 years from the judgement date. There are plenty of obstacles to that as well, for example if the house is my ONLY place of abode (唯一房产) or if the house cost multiple times in excess of the judgement debt (normally pegged at 150% but varies city to city). That is why in China there is a saying “判决容易,执行难”. There are also plenty pf things other than trust that cannot be executed against (执行), but I won’t elaborate on this unless you are interested.

    NOTE: An execution order (执行) can be stayed if there is nothing to execute against but it cannot be delayed. Simply put, once the judgement is entered, the creditor MUST asked for an execution order (执行) within 2 years or kiss the judgement goodbye. However, once the execution order (执行) has been initiated, the court can stay the order if there are no assets to execute on for eternity, hence the in debt forever (judgement debtor) “till death” part that I mentioned above. In such cases, the courts will just KIV the order and the onus falls on the creditor to track and prove to the courts that the debtor has new assets to reinstate the execution order (执行). Its a long process of cat and mouse.

    Anyway, this is exactly what the big boss of 碧贵园 did when the construction powerhouse almost went bankrupt owing billions. She transferred billions to her sister in Hong Kong to set up a trust before the company defaulted on its loan obligation.

    Hope this explains. Would be happy to address any further questions you may have on this.

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  • PAP mandate strong:

    古代游牧民族一生洗三次澡,一次为新生,一次为重生
    https://m.sohu.com/a/126160501_554795/?pvid=000115_3w_a

    @ 听说, 听说, believe in 听说.
    Likewise so is opposition supporters and pro china fans.

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  • SINGAROAR:

    @ TRE Tech
    Seems like the Laws and govt. agencies in China work in the interest of the people. Unfortunately in Singapore it protects the companies against the interest of the Public. We have weak regulators. There are private companies doing Trust work licensed by MAS that legally steal from Trust funds and when MAS is notified, they will ask you to go to Court. Those who think of using private trust companies and think that there are lawyers in the company and are MAS registered should be warned that their beneficiaries will be unable to ask for any accountability from the Trust Companies and they will not do payouts on dividends stating retention for legal fees if you set up discretionary Trust.This is a big scam under the nose of our MAS which has allowed the scams to continue without taking away the licence or putting a public registry for the public to be informed about the various Trust Companies and the complaints against them.It is a failure of the govt. to put in place proper safeguards to protect the Public from unscrupulous Financial Institutions. A Public Registry and a grading system should be set up to reduce the possibility of scams as a MAS licence gives the false impression that all FIs are MAS monitored.It is a great name to use for legal theft.

    Tech: It does appear to be so. Also, I note that instead of changing the laws often, the authorities can simply change the policies to effect the necessary. Like after the lockdowns, the central bank issued policies that requrie banks to pardon small loans, extend defaulted loans and limited the conditions under which banks can sue for defaulting loans. This I noticed, has the effect of rendering the changes and instructions immediate instead of waiting for thri parliament to sit and debate.

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  • Relax:

    @TRE Tech

    Is there such thing of father’s debt son pay (父债子还)? so can creditors touch the son’s trust if there is?

    If it is difficult to take back the money legally, will it be easier thru illegal methods?

    @”That is why in China there is a saying “判决容易,执行难”. There are also plenty pf things other than trust that cannot be executed against (执行), but I won’t elaborate on this unless you are interested.”

    Response: If you have the time to share the info, I am keen to know. Thanks for the explanation.

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  • @Relax

    1. The simple answer is NO, with few exceptions like if the father had acted as the son’s guarantor or if the asset in question is inherited by the son upon the father’s death. Inheritance YES, trust is ABSOLUTELY NO. There were judges who were on the take and had tried to be funny in the past, but these 执行 were all reversed and void upon appeal or when the AGC intervened.

    Basically it is 子债父不还, 父债子不还. This applies to the female member of the family, i.e. mother and daughter. As for husband and wife, it does not apply per the reasons I provided in our previous discussion.

    2. Anything illegal is possible as long as one is willing to risk going to prison for it, so I won’t comment on that aspect. Going back to the debt, since the Covid 19, with hundreds of millions of residents being in debt, the authorities enacted hundreds of policies to assist those in debt to 上岸, and one of them is to restrict the DO and DON’T of how a debt collector may behave and may not behave. In the past, these debt collectors are mostly unregistered and can do anything they want, but now the law requires them to be registered and are bound by the DO and DON’T during collection. For example, they CANNOT go to the debtor’s house without permission, they cannot collect the debt after officer hours, they cannot harass the debtors, etc etc etc. Any infringement means jail and fine up to 3 years and thousands of dollars.

    3. As for execution, there is a long list of exceptions that a judge may not touch, but I will have to leave it for another day because I have a lot to do today. You may check with Baidu, it is covered under 民法典. Again, some judges tried to be funny, but most of the execution orders were voided and stayed upon appeal or intervention by AGC.

    P/S: I understand that in China, the AGC ‘watch’ over the courts and they may intervene in almost all cases if there are reasonable grounds to do so, say if the judges made a ruling that is against the law, etc.

    Since Jan 2021, China has revised its laws to encompass the usually-used chapters under 民法典. This new revision is intended to cover most of the commonly used laws for the benefit of the masses, making it easier to understand even for a layperson.

    @SINGAROAR

    You are probably not wrong. In China, high high up in their constitution is the right of a person to exist, to stay alive (生命权, 生活权). So any rulings that are passed MUST ensure and respect that principle. Of course legal death sentence is an exception.

    Let me cite an example:

    Say a couple is in debt and there is a ruling against them, and they have only one house (唯一住房), the courts CANNOT auction off that house because it infringes on the couple’s 生命权 and 生活权. The courts will therefore have to ensure that should it decide to ‘touch’ the house, it will have to ensure that the couple has a place to stay and the means to live.

    The courts in most cases would ask the creditor (including banks) to provide some guarantee or monies to ensure the couple’s 生命权 and 生活权 if the creditor insists on auctioning the house.

    1. The most common practice is to ask the creditor to provide 5 to 8 years’ worth of rental fees in CASH to the couple at the prevailing market rate to rent an alternative place of abode. So if the market rate for a rental flat is $1000, then the creditor would have to pay the couple $1000 x 12 x 8 (assume 8 years) = $96,000 before the courts would allow the house to be auctioned off. This is provided for in law, it is guaranteed by law.

    Due to the Covid-19 lockdowns resulting in most residents being in debt, there is an unspoken understanding among judges that they will always try to avoid ‘touching’ the only place of abode unless absolutely necessary. Even if the debtor defaults on bank loans, the judges will try to convince the banks to extend the repayment period or delay the repayment, etc. There is also a “actionable| limit set on banks that they cannot sue if the debts does not exceed a certain amount, especially in credit card cases.

    Since the judges have the final say in whether to ‘touch’ the house or not, most of the time creditors lan lan, if they try to be unreasonable and guai lan.

    P/S: The judge who delivers the judgment is ALWAYS different from the judge who will sign the execution order. They are independent of each other, with each barred from intervening in their colleague’s respective decision/s.

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  • SINGAROAR:

    @TRE Tech
    Seems like China’s legal system is tailored to protect its citizens much more than in Singapore. The authorities also seem to have a closer relationship with the population unlike Singapore where the elites are in their ivory towers and the rest are deep in a hole they have dug for us. The increase in money laundering and scams reflects the poor regulatory system in place. The resident population pays a huge price in monetary losses because of a weak regulator. China seems to be much ahead of us in guarding the interest of it’s own population. It is amazing that Laws have been enacted to ensure that those who are sued by banks must have a roof over their heads. Can we say this in Singapore? Our regulatory bodies don’t even tell you if any action is taken against a license holder and direct you to the Courts.It seems like the objective is only in the licence fees collected not in executing the responsibility that goes along with it.Is it any surprise that there are so many crooks on the island?

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  • Light The Way:

    Sell daughter for a happy retirement.

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