Vers and Hip II: More Snake Oil from PAP

PM Lee Hsien Loong’s suggestion of the Voluntary Early Redevelopment Scheme (VERS) and Home Improvement Programme (HIP) II is clearly a panicked response than a well-thought out policy.

It is plain that Mr Lee is reacting to National Development Minister Lawrence Wong’s bombshell admission that HDB flats will become worthless after their 99-year leases expire.

Mr Lee said that under the HIP II, older flats reaching 60-70 years old will get a second round of upgrading. Singaporeans should remember that under the first round of HIP, the government made residents pay upwards of $10,000 for the upgrading.

These flats will have zero value in another 30-40 years when their leases expire. Why do HDB owners have to fork out more money just to see the value of their flats diminish?

The PM also introduced the idea of VERS. Under the scheme, residents will be polled to see if they want to sell their blocks back to the government. Major questions arise:

  • How logical is it to have your flats upgraded through HIP II and then 10 years later sell the flat through VERS? Isn’t this a monumnental mishandling of public resources and funds?
  • How much will the government compensate owners who decide to sell their flats en-bloc? Where is the money going to come from?
  • How will it affect elderly residents who will find relocating away from familiar surroundings and family and friends too stressful? As it is, the elderly are finding life lonely and desperate to the point that a record number are committing suicide.
  • How will VERS feed the habit of people buying older flats to profit from the monetary compensation like SERS does? The government will have to make the scheme financially attractive enough to assuage the unhappiness of HDB owners over the 99-year-lease expiration issue. High monetary compensation – apart from the question of where the funds are going to come from as mentioned – will keep resale flat prices unreasonably high. This will mean even more buyers depleting their CPF savings to buy their flats. Already, there are entire generations of retirees who are left with no income because they’ve used their CPF funds to pay for their flats.
  • We’ve seen how residents in the past have reacted when it comes to en-bloc sales of their residences, many resulting in bitter fights and acrimony. The government will pit neighbour aganist neighbour in such a scheme and destroy social harmony in the process. Is this worth it?

The PAP is clearly trying to stem the political bleeding arising from admission that HDB flats will eventually become worthless.

Mr Lee’s announcement, far from well-grounded and properly researched considerations, are reminiscent of the fiction that his party told voters that HDB flat prices would rise indefinitely. This spurious and irresponsible claim has led Singapore to the current massive housing and financial problem.

But instead of doing the right thing to remedy the situation (see SDP’s proposal below), the PAP is trying to sell the people more snake-oil with its eye firmly on the next elections. As we have noted, the PAP will say and do anything to win votes – future consequences be damned.

SDP’s alternative housing proposal:

  • Introduce Non-Open Market (NOM) scheme where new flats are priced at cost (labour, material and administrative costs) minus the land “cost”.
  • This will substantially lower flat-prices (ranging from $70,000 for 2-room flats to $240,000 for 5-room flats).
  • Cheaper NOM flats will take an estimated 9 to 15 years to pay off compared to about 30 years under the present system.
  • NOM flats cannot be re-sold in the open market. Owners wishing to dispose of their NOM flats will have to sell them back to the HDB.
  • Current owners can continue to sell their flats in the open market or choose to convert their flats into NOM flats. The government will return them the difference between the original price of their flats and the price of an equivalent NOM flat, subject to a cap. This money will be credited back to the owner’s CPF account for retirement use.

The rationale behind the NOM scheme is to prevent the government from profiting from public housing and depleting the people’s CPF savings. Public housing is a social good and should be used to meet the housing needs of the population and not become a profit-making venture.

Click here to read the SDP’s housing proposal, Housing A Nation, in full.

 

Singapore Democrats

 

 

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35 Responses to “Vers and Hip II: More Snake Oil from PAP”

  • Comedy of bulls#%t:

    Also STOP taking in more economic refugees. Support and invest in our own children and adults first…then there wont be a ever ending need to clear old blks of flats to cater for newer citizens,ft or pr ‘refugees’ n others..
    This damn gov is a total bloody failure and its getting worse.
    This mornings news reported Medishield premiums to rise!
    PAP is making sure they deplete your cpfs n one of them oredy mouthed that your cpf doesnt belong to you!

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  • Titiana Ann Xavier:

    The government has spoken. No bonanza for owners of flats reaching the end of the lease. HIP2 sucks off more money from CPF and enriches contractors. VERS will be a rip-off. Asset enhancement is for owners of private property in land-scarce Singapore. But the PAP government will come up with an enticing package to win votes. PM Lee is trying to calm nerves after Lawrence Wong dropped his bombshell that 99-year old flats become worthless when the lease expires.

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  • Bapak:

    This useless PM has no solution for all the problems in Singapore. What did the 70% see in him? I can only conclude that he is only capable of using his old man’s legacy. But it is the 70% that is not down to earth. The old man’s era is gone, he is gone, he is no more around. It is his useless son now, so please wake up. The longer this useless PM is around the more damages will be done. WAKE UP AND KICK HIM OUT!

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  • oxygen:

    HIP AND VERS IS WALKING CORPSE EVIDENCE OF FAILED ASSET ENHANCEMENT POLITICS SCAM that had infected our political-economic model for decades. Those meritocratic SCHOLARS from Ivy Leagues claimed to be natural aristocrats are ALL BLIND STUPID TOXIC INCUBATIONS. They can’t see the risks and consequences of this failing asset enhancement politics scam – a corpse that is rotting with maggots eating up the rotting carcass called LEE-jiapore.

    Jack Ma is right, these Ivy League scholars only learned KNOWLEDGE which is fast surpassed of use relevance swept past by turbulent changes. They have NO WISDOM but paid multi-millions annually of their own determination (ownself-cheque-ownself politics of never enough pay of mourning from REDUNDANT PAST) and TRAGICALLY, THIS LOT WON’T WOKE UP TOMORROW MORNING TO SEE THE SUNLIGHT. Jack Ma would never hire this lot of MORONS!

    SDP is RIGHT OF ITS CRITIQUE of HIP and VERS. HIP is another election lolly using public money to scavenge fast decline in waning PAPpys political fortune. There will be demand for co-payment to give false inducement and representation that it is SUBSIDIZED out of PAPpys generosity for the peasants’ benefit. POPPYCOCK! It is fake subsidy, just like peasants paid for the land but its legal ownership of land is SILENT STOLEN behind via A LEASE (liability) OF ONLY THE CHATTEL (flat without the land). Imagine this, Ah Kong and Ah Mah’s children needs their own home, they won’t stay with their aged parents WHO ARE WITHOUT AN INCOME SOURCE, little or no or inadequate CPF retirement payout to survive, and probably supported (for the lucky ones) by filial hard-pressed children. How is their kids going to pay for HIP2 and still NO LAND TITLE GIVEN BACK TO THE AGED PARENTS for financial security till they go to TERN SUA??

    VERS is telescopic long-distance clairvoyance promise of fake charity – much like the Swiss standards of living – no substantiation now – the passage of time will see the promise degenerated into SWISS COSTS OF LIVING and the architect of fiction pretends this was just a big joke of faded irrelevance thereafter. For a start, VER is good for estate renewals BUT OLD UNCLES AND AUNTIES GOT MONEY TO PAY FOR THE NEXT BTOs, or 30 year 2-rm SEXY? If they can’t afford now, they will be financially even worst strapped of finance when it is another 20 years of life consumption /depletion of financial resources, maybe collecting cardboards and clearing tables in Kopitiam. PAPpy Wong promise of leaseback of 5-rm flats and bigger PROVED THAT THESE WHITE ELEPHANTS HAVE NO SCOPE FOR MONETIZATION. The PAPpy maggots are feasting on desperation surrendering of peasants last shelter hope.

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  • oxygen:

    IF PAPpy WANTS TO DO GOOD AND DO GOOD TOGETHER, it must do this – GIVE BACK THE LAND TO PEASANTS WHO PAID FOR IT, This will allow peasants to en-bloc their HDB flats, and release money back into their CPF account for retirement security.

    THE HIP IS ELECTION LOLLY for political ends of PAPpy longevity, hegemony and FAILED LEGACY it desperately want to salvage. In the internet age, PEASANTS ARE NOT STUPID of advice given by their educated children.

    VER (whose acronym has got GAY conotations) IS LIKE REDUNDANT MISTRESS – expensive and to no good outcome except that mistress will drive stupidity to discard reality (your loyal wife through thick and thin).

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  • James Lee:

    HIP1 plus HIP2 plus Vers and Sers are all wonderful ideas.Why not just solve the ensuing uncertainties by automatically extending the 99-year lease… period subject to a nominal surcharge or annual ‘rent’.

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  • clown is most snake in pap:

    when Mr Roy Ngerng caught clown pap and S$m gang lying about gic money temasick money are not CPF money, clown pap and S$m gang after putting Mr Roy Ngerng to court stopped the lie since it has been exposed.

    when clown pap shot own goal, that is, when clown pap’s own laulan wrong declared HDB value goes to zero at end of lease, clown pap and S$m gang could not indict own clan member. so what to do with the centuries of pap lying that HDB is asset for 70% sheep?

    as the saying goes, it takes bigger lies to cover one small lie.

    so after clown national rally 2018 no end of trying to BS to 70% sheep HDB is valuable asset, and days after, the same clown pap clan member laulan wrong also doing the same, the lies become more ridiculous.

    it depends on which dictionary one is using to define asset. in all normal terms, an asset is a chattel that maintains or appreciates in value over time. since HDB goes to zero at end of lease, how can HDB be asset?

    clown pap and S$m gang are caught in the web of lies it has spinned.

    like a 10 year old car, at the end of COE, the car value is NOT zero. there is residual worth, depending on car model, of tens of thousands of dollars.

    so it is the same with HDB. at the end of lease, the HDB is ACTUALLY not zero in value. sure, the land lease, like the COE, is worth zero. but the HDB flat, like the COE expired car body, is worth a lot of dollars.

    BUT clown pap and S$m gang know that if 70% sheep discovers this truth, clown pap and S$m gang might have to forgo a large portion of their S$m bonus in order to repay 70% sheep for the HDB flat (land lease expired).

    in our calculation, the pillars, the pipes, the structural fittings, things worth money but which 70% sheep flat rentee cannot remove, are worth a lot of money. taking a simple 4% compounded interest, the same interest clown pap and S$m gang used to compute CPF life escalation, at the end of 99 year lease, the physical HDB flat is worth close to S$2m, due to 99 years compounding at 4%, the residual value of the HDB flat is phenomenal.

    imagine. S$2m per flat. of course clown pap and S$m gang cannot tell 70% sheep.

    how to truly unlock the land leased expired HDB flat?

    VOTE into power New Government. clown pap and S$m gang think every dollar in national coffer belongs to them alone and would do all they can, like Mr Scrounge, to lie to cheat to do all things evil to keep the money within pap clan.

    VOTE into parliament (renamed from parleement) OPPOSITION alliance to form New Government to unlock the residual value of HDB flat.

    there is no other way.

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  • LIONS:

    THE CIRCUS HAS COME TO TOWN.
    THE CLOWN IS HAVING FUN SCREWING UP THE LIVES OF COMMON SGS.

    WE MUJST GET RID OF THE FAKE GAHMEN!

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  • Python5:

    Hdb prices is a cancerous disease that has pervades the whole society n system unchecked over decades. It doesn’t kill u, but forces u to create solutions to instantly rectify the problem, or a long term 20 year solution to pretend u can alleviate the endless pain. Both solutions will not work.

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  • Python5:

    That vers or hip 2 upgrade. Its a cheap ploy to get ppl to vote for them for the next 20 years, spanning some 4-5 general elections.

    So that they would not have to conceive a new carrot or fake s*ake oil when each GE season comes. This is one big fake carrot dipped in fake s*ake oil being sold to stupid Singaporeans.
    Guaranteed for 20 years, not just 1 GE season only.

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  • Python5:

    Bishan 5rm bought for 1mil. 30 yrs loan.

    Then you have that 20kg fake carrot immersed in a drum of 20 litres of fake s*ake oil, with a warranty of 20 years.
    (warranty void if open before 20 years)

    How much u think that bishan 5 rm is worth 20 yrs from now when u apply that fake s*ake oil to it???

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  • rukidding:

    Lousy PM indeed !

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  • We are all Doomed:

    HDB does not belong to us!!!

    You know that when you are declared bankrupt the Court cannot seize your HDB flat nor can you use your fully paid HDB flat as a collateral.

    WHY?

    Simple, it is because HDB flat does not belong to us, we only lease it for 99 years.

    All HDB documents state that you are a leasee.

    Simple!!! All the white monkeys tried their best to twist and turn like how they had turned an Indian into a Malay.

    Wake up citizen before it is too late.

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  • Where have all the $$gone:

    Always fear when you hear gov is going to do something for the good of citizens..
    Theres always a price to pay down the line .
    Give one chicken take back one goose nowdays.
    No free lunch in this richest city in the world…where the people are poor.

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  • Edmund:

    Hi SINGAPORE DEMOCRATS

    I read your article in the tremeritus.com as per attached.

    My question is about converting from present HDB title to your NOM title and the positive value credited to retirement scheme (is it PAP retirement scheme?). This would mean the owner cannot monetize the extra value. People are out of jobs as they are replaced by foreigners in PAP agenda with full support from the present government to increase population to milk new citizens’ votes (jobs given to them in many many many government linked companies).
    People are borrowing high and low from licenced moneylenders to make ends meet.
    Their only way out is to get cash from their HDB. They should be compensated from the land cost that you say the government have included it when it was priced to sell to us, otherwise they should have no legal basis to take back the HDB flat.

    What have you to say on the NOM to take the profits to lock into retirement account?

    Please be inform that this email will be make public and so will be your reply if you choose to reply.

    Kind regards
    Edmund CHUA
    (I am a supporter of SINGAPORE, not any political party)

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  • snr citizen:

    The writer mentioned:

    “Singaporeans should remember that under the first round of HIP, the government made residents pay upwards of $10,000 for the upgrading”

    I stayed in a 4-rm flat. Under HIP upgrading following were done:

    1) Replacement of wall/floor tiles, wash basins, toilet bowls and sewer pipes in the toilet/bathroom (2 units).
    2) Replacement of door grille gate
    3) Replacement of refuse chute hopper.

    In fairness you should mention the govt subsidy which formed a sizeable sum. In my case the subsidy given was $7276.07 and I need to pay only $940.50.

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  • HarderTruths:

    If 70% believed this bullshit then they deserve what they get.

    The idiots who voted these incompetents into power thought it was ok as long as they profited.

    Guess who’re the real fools 70% – it’s not those you put in power earning million dollar salaries.

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  • Harder Truths:

    All these new scams are just another way to get your meagre savings into their fat wallets as they are running out of ways to get more from other well-known scams like CPF and IRS.

    Do not think this is for us. Everytime they do something ‘for the people’ you will lose even more.

    Don’t believe? Wait and see.

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  • Very strange:

    Harem of Plps or if u preferred nest of fartworms gathrring over billionaire wone n cheese plp rewards party or a time to assess the fart content how effectiev they have been stinking up the air to subdue the kpkb of daft slaves or 賤民 or parials as the dowry conmen will refer or babis with just one farting agenda: how to hookwin the slaves that they have their woshes as PROMISED to their kpkb so that they will be so happy to part their CPF plus cash n so grateful to send them back for another decade to screw them up which is the promise they vow to keep while the other one is meant to break like the ir billions salary. Singaporeans would remember how COE is introduced. Car pop controlled Save environment but if you pay to extend hell to the . The slave can die or better get very sick so plps fartworms n their hosts can get richers n paid for their clean air in their dark holes.

    Prior to the despicable spineerosion sell out of Sporeans to aid the scum in chief fulfilling his nepotic humkazan empire, SIN has GKW, LKS, OPB to keep to their human ideal n promises but after that it is all thd way self gratification n self glorification with nazi fashion of extermination of those who kpkb n dissent. The kpkb has been going on for decades so much so the scum in chief dismissed thdm as daft or stupid. Ua ly so they r do stupid that they succumb to the carrots or like saet ‘s half defending the black idol that what he self gratified from SKF pot was just peanuts, just imagine what is not peanut to mrs sw n the nepotists n their fartworms. They hVe even have the ashened roti prata to relate to the environment stinked up by fartworms like him the kpkb of the stupid sporeans.
    So why now sp panic n start to patch. Do Soreans think that they r really doing what u kpkb abt or just another round of promises, fleecing yo be squeezed, screws up later. Pay n pay. Promise n Pay Promise n poo. Fo u believe

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  • Very strange:

    Harem of Plps or if u preferred nest of fartworms gathrring over billionaire wone n cheese plp rewards party or a time to assess the fart content how effectiev they have been stinking up the air to subdue the kpkb of daft slaves or 賤民 or parials as the dowry conmen will refer or babis with just one farting agenda: how to hookwin the slaves that they have their woshes as PROMISED to their kpkb so that they will be so happy to part their CPF plus cash n so grateful to send them back for another decade to screw them up which is the promise they vow to keep while the other one is meant to break like the ir billions salary. Singaporeans would remember how COE is introduced. Car pop controlled Save environment but if you pay to extend hell to the . The slave can die or better get very sick so plps fartworms n their hosts can get richers n paid for their clean air in their dark holes.

    Prior to the despicable spineerosion sell out of Sporeans to aid the scum in chief fulfilling his nepotic humkazan empire, SIN has GKW, LKS, OPB to keep to their human ideal n promises but after that it is all thd way self gratification n self glorification with nazi fashion of extermination of those who kpkb n dissent. The kpkb has been going on for decades so much so the scum in chief dismissed thdm as daft or stupid. Ua ly so they r do stupid that they succumb to the carrots or like saet ‘s half defending the black idol that what he self gratified from SKF pot was just peanuts, just imagine what is not peanut to mrs sw n the nepotists n their fartworms. They hVe even have the ashened roti prata to relate to the environment stinked up by fartworms like him the kpkb of the stupid sporeans.
    So why now sp panic n start to patch. Do Soreans think that they r really doing what u kpkb abt or just another round of promises, fleecing yo be squeezed, screws up later. Pay n pay. Promise n Pay Promise n poo. Do u believe?

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  • Who Remembers 10-20y later?:

    > VERS??? HIP II???
    -
    It is all Marketing talk courtesy of Papaya – AristoCATs . . .
    -
    10-20y is a very long time.. .
    -
    Inconvenient Questions -
    * Will Mr. Pink still be PM to deliver the promise?
    * BerthaHenson posed – who pays?
    -
    10-20 y is a very long time. . .
    -
    In Education, years ago 1996, Papaya talked of the future -
    STW – Students’ n Teachers’ WorkBench –
    supposedly, classrm of the future – with info at the finger tips –
    -
    Many waited and waited. . .
    -
    the Reality? –
    ask yr children in class rm. . . :(

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  • Tak Harapan coalition of SG:

    WP has so many blocks of flats undergone or undergoing HIP.
    Why has WP raised no major issues with the HIP ?
    Many went through HIP and full of complaints.

    Is WP representative of the their residents?

    Investigate WP !!

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  • More Of The Same:

    These snakes are so arrogant now that they don’t even bother to change the s*ake oil formula.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Snr Citizen

    IF YOU OWN THE FLAT, IT IS PAPpys subsidizing you. If it is PAPpy owns the flat and you are a lessee (tenant) only, ARE YOU NOT SUBSIDIZING THEM in material reality?

    If you sub-let one of your room to a FT, would you ask & your sub-tenant obligingly pay for any part of those $904.50 of your mention?

    Or more likely, he/she tells you this – go fly a kite – in which case your $7276.07 amount of omitted payment is A MIRAGE OF SUBSIDY.

    snr citizen: I stayed in a 4-rm flat. Under HIP upgrading following were done:

    1) Replacement of wall/floor tiles, wash basins, toilet bowls and sewer pipes in the toilet/bathroom (2 units).
    2) Replacement of door grille gate
    3) Replacement of refuse chute hopper.

    In fairness you should mention the govt subsidy which formed a sizeable sum. In my case the subsidy given was $7276.07 and I need to pay only $940.50.

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  • snr citizen:

    oxygen:
    @ Snr Citizen

    IF YOU OWN THE FLAT, IT IS PAPpys subsidizing you. If it is PAPpy owns the flat and you are a lessee (tenant) only, ARE YOU NOT SUBSIDIZING THEM in material reality?

    If you sub-let one of your room to a FT, would you ask & your sub-tenant obligingly pay for any part of those $904.50 of your mention?

    Or more likely, he/she tells you this – go fly a kite – in which case your $7276.07 amount of omitted payment is A MIRAGE OF SUBSIDY.

    I “rented” my flat from HDB in 1981. Rental for the whole 99-year “tenancy” was $33600 and I paid it by instalments for 15 years. Since 1997 I pay no rental because I BOUGHT my flat. If I had only rented it, then rental would be a perpetual payment. My flat was upgraded in 2012. I sold my flat in 2017 and surrendered my Title Deed to HDB.

    Whether you consider HDB as the owner and I as a lessee/tenant does not matter because I was the one who received the buyer’s cheque. If I was considered a tenant then it would be quite unique for the tenant to sell-off his rented property and kept the proceeds.

    For upgrading scheme, residents are aware of the benefits of upgrading, facts tell especially after their flats were upgraded.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Snr citizen

    THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR CONTINUED SHARING, it is truly appreciated, no matter what contrarian views prevail.

    snr citizen: Since 1997 I pay no rental because I BOUGHT my flat. If I had only rented it, then rental would be a perpetual payment. My flat was upgraded in 2012. I sold my flat in 2017 and surrendered my Title Deed to HDB

    MATE, I have NO UNCERTAINTY from your revelation disclosure that you BOUGHT (cap lock of your emphasis acknowledged fully) your flat. In financial terms, YOU PAID FOR IT with financial resources employed, not stolen from anyone.Legitimately, you can be proud of your achievement, I SALUTE YOU HERE!

    I have one puzzling bewilderment or puzzling teaser for you. If U haven’t sold it to another buyer – at the end of 99-yr, YOU OR YOUR NEXT BUYER (who bought from you) have to surrender the dwelling back to HDB, right? I hope your integrity of truth-telling won’t deny this fact.

    If you agrees with me on factual law dictates of dwelling return to HDB, WHO OWNS THAT FLAT IN REALITY in that 99-year past? Why not sell to me one day before expiry, I WILL GRADLY PAY YOU 5c or $5 if that makes you happy!!

    If you goggle Bridges v Hawkesworth + 1851 + property law, its ratio decidendi (case law precedent) says YOU NEVER OWNS THAT FLAT IN THAT 99yrs if

    - you have to return to another who is IN CONTROL AND POSSESSORY PROTECTION of final outcome.

    NO PROPERTY LAW LAWYER IN TOWN WILL DISAGREE WITH THESE LEGAL PRINCIPLES, not me!!

    If you do, please supply your law rationale in rebut. I WOULD BE MOST HAPPY TO HEAR FROM YOU ON THIS ONE.

    As to your assertion below, I am in full agreement with you. HDB is a freak of property law application – the buyer of HDB dwelling is, according to HDB, both the owner (asset owner) and lessee (liability borrower). In the reality world, if you own that place, I can’t lease it to you because

    - it is not mine and
    - it is yours, so nobody can lease it to you the proper owner.

    THE MYSTERY INEXPLICABLE IS SOMEONE OR ENTITY – pretentiously not the owner or leasor – collects resale levy from your “sale”. Since you “own” your flat, why share the proceeds with anyone else?

    PLEASE COME BACK AND TEACH ME PROPERTY LAW, THANKS IN ADVANCE A BILLION!!

    snr citizen: If I was considered a tenant then it would be quite unique for the tenant to sell-off his rented property and kept the proceeds

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  • Msian running dogs in siglap:

    snr citizen: I “rented” my flat from HDB in 1981. Rental for the whole 99-year “tenancy” was $33600 and I paid it by instalments for 15 years. Since 1997 I pay no rental because I BOUGHT my flat. If I had only rented it, then rental would be a perpetual payment. My flat was upgraded in 2012. I sold my flat in 2017 and surrendered my Title Deed to HDB.

    Whether you consider HDB as the owner and I as a lessee/tenant does not matter because I was the one who received the buyer’s cheque. If I was considered a tenant then it would be quite unique for the tenant to sell-off his rented property and kept the proceeds.

    For upgrading scheme, residents are aware of the benefits of upgrading, facts tell especially after their flats were upgraded.

    not so fast, bro. until the play on words is cleared up, more sheep may fall into the crevice by the choice of words which you have mistakenly used.

    you don’t own the HDB. you have agreed to pay at S$33,600 to pay 99 years of rental. that you have chosen to pay all 99 years in 15 years does not detract from the fact it is a 99 years of rental.

    since you now own the rights to the remaining years of the rental, you managed to find a sheep to take over the remaining years at a price the sheep agreed and which you were happy to transfer.

    you have not sold the HDB flat. you don’t own it, not from day 1 or on the day you transferred the rental to the sheep who bought over the rental rights to the balance of the rental period from you.

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  • Python 5:

    you bought the LEASE and you paid for it in full after 15years.
    then you sold the LEASE and profited from it.
    lucky for you, you probably have a 2nd roof under your head.

    snr citizen: I “rented” my flat from HDB in 1981. Rental for the whole 99-year “tenancy” was $33600 and I paid it by instalments for 15 years. Since 1997 I pay no rental because I BOUGHT my flat. If I had only rented it, then rental would be a perpetual payment. My flat was upgraded in 2012. I sold my flat in 2017 and surrendered my Title Deed to HDB.

    Whether you consider HDB as the owner and I as a lessee/tenant does not matter because I was the one who received the buyer’s cheque. If I was considered a tenant then it would be quite unique for the tenant to sell-off his rented property and kept the proceeds.

    For upgrading scheme, residents are aware of the benefits of upgrading, facts tell especially after their flats were upgraded.

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  • Python 5:

    Msian running dogs in siglap: since you now own the rights to the remaining years of the rental, you managed to find a sheep to take over the remaining years at a price the sheep agreed and which you were happy to transfer.

    I hope this snr citizen guy didn’t go for another $1mil HDB lease and thinks its another asset he can profit from.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Msian running dogs in siglap

    MATE, BEAUTIFULLY SAID below. @ Snr citizen was given a run around the block by this HDB scam, and has no awareness of reality. If he paid cash of $33,600 upon the first signing of lease, he is still paying 99-yr rental in advance because he NEVER owns the land (in property law, only land is real property – I keep telling all but property-mad Sinkies just can’t absorb this legal precept), he merely leased the chattel (HDB dwelling) for 99 yr advance payment made.

    @ Snr citizen sold his lease in 2017, I did like to praise him now one word – CONGRATULATION – either you are a great investor or a greater fool in self-delusion. He needs a place to shelter, so he either bought a condo, maybe landed castle or another BTO (but he is silent on this point). If he bought a condo/landed, he DIDN’T HAVE TO PAY a HDB RESALE LEVY which he is liable IF HE BOUGHT ANOTHER BTO.

    Assuming he bought another BTO, this time he is paying for another 99yr lease of advance rental – PLUS HE GAVE AWAY a huge sum to PAPpy in resale levy paid up-front BASED ON THIS INFLATED BTO price. If @snr citizen ever owns the property (land) or chattel (HDB dwelling) on his $33,600 first purchase, he NEED NOT BE FATHER CHRISTMAS giving away a huge amount of resale levy to another entity AT ITS COMMAND. In effect, the entity receiving the resale levy is the REAL SILENT AND HIDDEN OWNER of both the land and the chattel which @snr citizen thought (mistakenly) he was the owner!

    @ snr citizen played the game of this recycled HDB scam. He thought he was chasing the trophy but found caught with an urn (with a very expensive 99-yr new BTO RENTAL lease). He is going to surrender this to the leasor AT EXPIRY OR HIS MORTALITY -PAPpys is THE REAL HIDDEN SILENT OWNER.

    Msian running dogs in siglap: not so fast, bro. until the play on words is cleared up, more sheep may fall into the crevice by the choice of words which you have mistakenly used.

    you don’t own the HDB. you have agreed to pay at S$33,600 to pay 99 years of rental. that you have chosen to pay all 99 years in 15 years does not detract from the fact it is a 99 years of rental.

    since you now own the rights to the remaining years of the rental, you managed to find a sheep to take over the remaining years at a price the sheep agreed and which you were happy to transfer.

    you have not sold the HDB flat. you don’t own it, not from day 1 or on the day you transferred the rental to the sheep who bought over the rental rights to the balance of the rental period from you

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  • oxygen:

    @ Python 5

    POIGNANT AND PUNGENT feedback – anyone who chased the 2017/2018 en bloc craze are going to discover themselves carrying an urn instead of a trophy AFTER PAPpy Wong took out the ABSD cane. It is double-top back to 2012 price level which wonder boy Wong decided ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, you dumbed fools!! The property market bubble is ECONOMICALLY UNSUSTAINABLE – just look at the DRASTIC FALL OFF in 2nd qtr GDP number released after Wong’s caning of frenzied property insanity. Ministry of Trade & Industry and MAS know the casino is sucking more and more speculators and blindly and greedily queuing up into the abattoir. Elsewhere property market tumbled in Australia, US and in recent weeks in HK, buyer surrender huge deposits – fearing a slaughter of bankruptcy if they execute the purchase option. Sinkie property speculators are MAD, those who committed late 2017 or 2018 ARE ALL GOING TO FIND A ROOF UNDER THE HEAD – as you put it beautifully. I look at listed US property developers shares, they have been in bear run for months before PAPpy Wong took out the cane! OMG, US economy is 65% consumption base and BIGGEST CONSUMPTION COMPONENT IS HOUSING – recent months figures spoke of DECLINING NEW HOME SALES (which explains why listed prop developer shares have been falling in US) and more eerie, EXISTING HOME SALE (the biggest sub-segment of US property market by far). It is GRIM WARNING that a US property market is near the edge of a BIG NEGATIVE TURN SOUTH sinking the economy.

    It is not hard for me to understand why. The US 30 yr bond yield is stuck at 3% – despite strong US GDP numbers in last 12 months. But the 10 yr 2.85% – only 25 basis point or maybe 2 more interest rate hike to cause a yield INVERSION (i.e. short term interest rate higher than long term rate). With yield inversion, the costs of money short term is more expensive to use that money to invest in long term. LENDING WILL FREEZE OR SLOW DOWN, ECONOMY FELL INTO RECESSION.

    EU is in sh*t, Turkey is emergent economy sick contagious baby, Italy is next. China slow down in Trade War with US – two biggest economy in a sh*thole. Argentina, Indonesia and Brazil joining Turkey??

    MAS & PAPpy Wong took out the fat cane – VERY GOOD AND CLEVER – if not, more property-mad family will be found carrying the urn instead of the trophy.

    IDIOTS!!

    Python 5: you bought the LEASE and you paid for it in full after 15years.
    then you sold the LEASE and profited from it.
    lucky for you, you probably have a 2nd roof under your head.

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  • snr citizen:

    oxygen:
    @ Snr citizen

    THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR CONTINUED SHARING, it is truly appreciated, no matter what contrarian views prevail.

    MATE, I have NO UNCERTAINTY from your revelation disclosure that you BOUGHT (cap lock of your emphasis acknowledged fully) your flat. In financial terms, YOU PAID FOR IT with financial resources employed, not stolen from anyone.Legitimately, you can be proud of your achievement, I SALUTE YOU HERE!

    I have one puzzling bewilderment or puzzling teaser for you. If U haven’t sold it to another buyer – at the end of 99-yr, YOU OR YOUR NEXT BUYER (who bought from you) have to surrender the dwelling back to HDB, right? I hope your integrity of truth-telling won’t deny this fact.

    If you agrees with me on factual law dictates of dwelling return to HDB, WHO OWNS THAT FLAT IN REALITY in that 99-year past? Why not sell to me one day before expiry, I WILL GRADLY PAY YOU 5c or $5 if that makes you happy!!

    If you goggle Bridges v Hawkesworth + 1851 + property law, its ratio decidendi (case law precedent) says YOU NEVER OWNS THAT FLAT IN THAT 99yrs if

    - you have to return to another who is IN CONTROL AND POSSESSORY PROTECTION of final outcome.

    NO PROPERTY LAW LAWYER IN TOWN WILL DISAGREE WITH THESE LEGAL PRINCIPLES, not me!!

    If you do, please supply your law rationale in rebut. I WOULD BE MOST HAPPY TO HEAR FROM YOU ON THIS ONE.

    As to your assertion below, I am in full agreement with you. HDB is a freak of property law application – the buyer of HDB dwelling is, according to HDB, both the owner (asset owner) and lessee (liability borrower). In the reality world, if you own that place, I can’t lease it to you because

    - it is not mine and
    - it is yours, so nobody can lease it to you the proper owner.

    THE MYSTERY INEXPLICABLE IS SOMEONE OR ENTITY – pretentiously not the owner or leasor – collects resale levy from your “sale”. Since you “own” your flat, why share the proceeds with anyone else?

    PLEASE COME BACK AND TEACH ME PROPERTY LAW, THANKS IN ADVANCE A BILLION!!

    HDB flat owners know they own their flats albeit only for 99 years and are also aware their flats would be returned to the state end of the lease. Owners of pre-own flats, also aware they only own the remaining lease held by previous owners. Testimony of their ownership is the ability to sell their flats. This is the reality and demands for HDB flats are still growing. If your notion of “rental” holds then demand should drop.
    Value of flats will fall to zero at end of the lease – this is natural with the reducing lease period but it did not alter the ownership of the lease the owners hold…

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  • oxygen:

    @ Snr Citizen

    WHICH CASE LAW support your fantasy castle fabrication below. Please cite your ratio decidendi of that case law, IF YOU CAN FIND ONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD!

    snr citizen: HDB flat owners know they own their flats albeit only for 99 years and are also aware their flats would be returned to the state end of the lease. Owners of pre-own flats, also aware they only own the remaining lease held by previous owners. Testimony of their ownership is the ability to sell their flats. This is the reality and demands for HDB flats are still growing. If your notion of “rental” holds then demand should drop.
    Value of flats will fall to zero at end of the lease – this is natural with the reducing lease period but it did not alter the ownership of the lease the owners hold…

    I chose not to embarrass you but it is necessary now to point out your WINDY HAPPY CONTRADICTION below of your UNPROMPTED CONFESSION.

    snr citizen: My flat was upgraded in 2012. I sold my flat in 2017 and surrendered my Title Deed to HDB.

    You sold your HDB flat to buyer XYZ but you surrendered your Tittle Deed to HDB, NOT the buyer.

    NOW TELL US ALL — WHO IS THE OWNER? HDB (WHO DIDN’T PAY YOU ONE CENT) OR buyer XYZ WHO PAID YOU of your factual history.

    The left hand doesn’t know the right hand is stealing property in law definition?

    PLEASE REVERT BACK, THANK YOU!!

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  • snr citizen:

    oxygen:
    @ Snr Citizen

    WHICH CASE LAW support your fantasy castle fabrication below. Please cite your ratio decidendi of that case law, IF YOU CAN FIND ONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD!
    I chose not to embarrass you but it is necessary now to point out your WINDY HAPPY CONTRADICTION below of your UNPROMPTED CONFESSION.
    You sold your HDB flat to buyer XYZ but you surrendered your Tittle Deed to HDB, NOT the buyer.

    NOW TELL US ALL — WHO IS THE OWNER? HDB (WHO DIDN’T PAY YOU ONE CENT) OR buyer XYZ WHO PAID YOU of your factual history.

    The left hand doesn’t know the right hand is stealing property in law definition?

    PLEASE REVERT BACK, THANK YOU!!

    HDB flats come under a Public Housing Scheme which has its own frame of rules, and transactions are done within its rules. Rules applicable to private properties may not apply to HDB flats. So also, your ‘expert knowledge’ of case laws and property laws – save and use them elsewhere.

    The contentious issue is whether an HDB flat bought is owned or rent. You can twist with all your warped logic but HDB flat owners know they own their flats. Every launch of new HDB flats saw demand exceeds supply of flats offered. These speak more that I can tell you.

    I surrendered my Title Deed to HDB and you regarded it as “confession “. What did I confess? I sold my flat and return my ownership certificate. Was it, not right? HDB would then issue the buyer a new Title Deed.

    With your ‘expertise’ on property laws please enlighten me in which country you can find a tenant can sell the property he rented.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Snr Citizen

    INDEED THE DEVIL CAN MAKE IT OWN LAW – glad you voluntarily confessed.

    snr citizen: HDB flats come under a Public Housing Scheme which has its own frame of rules, and transactions are done within its rules. Rules applicable to private properties may not apply to HDB flats. So also, your ‘expert knowledge’ of case laws and property laws – save and use them elsewhere.

    How come the raging online debate on owner/rent controversy?

    snr citizen: but HDB flat owners know they own their flats.

    Your s*ake tongue changed from title deed to owner certificate. What other confessions of legal lies you haven’t presented yet?

    snr citizen: What did I confess? I sold my flat and return my ownership certificate.

    ONLY IN LEE-JIAPORE, TENANT OF 99yr lease sell the “property” and I doubt it is even legal!

    snr citizen: please enlighten me in which country you can find a tenant can sell the property he rented.

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