Getting real on housing, part 1: 99 year leasehold condominiums

Truth 1: A 99 year leasehold condominium will be returned to the government at the end of 99 years, like a HDB flat.

Truth 2: The value of a 99 year leasehold condominium will be zero at the end of 99 years, like a HDB flat.

Truth 3: A 99 year leasehold condominium is subject to lease depreciation, just like a HDB flat.

Truth 4: The entire 99 year leasehold condominium is a lessee of the land from the government, and each unit owner is just a part-lessee.

Truth 5: A 99 year leasehold condominium unit owner may hold a strata title, but that just means you own both the unit and a share of the common areas. The entire condominium’s title deed is still a lease from the government. A strata title doesn’t magically turn your 99 year lease into a freehold.

Truth 6: “but condos can enbloc!” Not every 99 year leasehold condominium will be allowed to top up its lease during enbloc. No lease top up, no enbloc. True especially for condominiums with low redevelopment potential.

Truth 7: More than half of 99 year leasehold enblocs fail. Success stories are not the norm. There are plenty of old leasehold condominiums which remain unsold.

Truth 8: Good luck to those who bought ECs. 99 year leasehold, low redevelopment potential and unattractive locations. The chances of your EC selling enbloc successfully are low.

Truth 9: The upgrading costs of a condominium are paid by the owners. The upgrading costs for public housing are mostly funded by the government (ie taxpayers aka both public and private house owners). In other words, HDB owners don’t have to pay for condo upgrading, but condo owners have to pay for HDB upgrading through taxes.

Truth 10: You are unlikely to have time to use your condo facilities because you are probably spending your time working hard to pay off your mortgage, especially for you neither-high-nor-low SES half-past-six EC owners.

Property agents won’t tell you these truths so that they can sell you 99 year leasehold condominiums. The government won’t publicly say these truths so that 99 year leasehold condo prices won’t plunge and anger the current owners.

 

Anon

 

 

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34 Responses to “Getting real on housing, part 1: 99 year leasehold condominiums”

  • NotMyProblem:

    99 years lease was not the problem and the value after 99 years equal to zero was also logical.

    The main problem was PAP lied about asset enhancement, value of flat will not depreciate, value will keep go up and retirement nest eggs, etc. PAP has being lying for more than 50 years already and still want to continues lying with HIP2 and VERS. PAP still tried to change CPF rule more elder people to fall into this trap.

    Now that PAP is very sure of winning elections, from new citizens, it reveals the truth of 99-year flats value equal to zero. Resulted in your CPF melting like ice under the hot sun, retirement fund gone.

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  • Get Real:

    @ Anon

    Don’t mean to be gross. But had to illustrate life meanings with such an analogy

    Just like someone told me. Quality food and plain food, both turn to sh*ts anyway. But why still choose to eat quality food? Same logic.

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  • oxygen:

    @Anon

    YOU MISSED THE BIGGEST TRUTH DISCOVERY – private condo is a 99-yr lease, HDB is a 99-yr prepaid rental as a tenant. That is why upgrading is using public money from tax – the property at all time belongs to PAPpyplitics/PAPpynomics.

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  • Get Real:

    If a private condo is fully paid. You will get a title deed in thick quality paper, embossed with a logo, like a diploma certificate. For HDB, I don’t think so. Maybe, a piece of paper? Someone can throw some light?

    oxygen:
    @Anon

    YOU MISSED THE BIGGEST TRUTH DISCOVERY – private condo is a 99-yr lease, HDB is a 99-yr prepaid rental as a tenant. That is why upgrading is using public money from tax – the property at all time belongs to PAPpyplitics/PAPpynomics.

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  • Anon (the real thing):

    Real truth 1: we all die
    Real truth 2: even apparently wealthy people with million dollar HDB flats die
    Real truth 3: a HDB flat is just a temporary abode so any asset enhancement scheme is just sugar-coating to create a false feel-good factor temporarily
    Real truth 4: freehold or leasehold only holds true as long as a country is not conquered or taken over by internal revolutionaries who may nationalise all assets.
    Real truth 5: HDB was always meant to be ‘afffordable’ PUBLIC housing, meaning not meant to be subjected to market forces.
    Real truth 6: a home is not an asset.
    Real truth 7: This hare-brained idea of asset enhancement came on the back of Thatcherite privatisation policies and Reganomics.

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  • Ah Seng:

    So,don’t buy 99 years condo,double the price of 99 years HDB.
    Might as well,search for FREEHOLD like older terrace houses.

    Anon has some valid points though.
    If china men can buy FREEHOLD LANDED,they will surely do so instead of buying condo 99 years?

    So,try to look out for freehold landed instead of buying 99 condo.
    You can pass down to your kids and grandkids unlike 99 years leasehold.

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  • Hagen-Diaz:

    @ Anon

    I want to completely demolish your truth statements below:

    Because a 99 year leasehold condo has the potential for en-bloc, its’ value will in fact increases because some buyers are willing to buy at above market price as the lease near expiry, in anticipation of a profitable return on enbloc.

    Truth 3: A 99 year leasehold condominium is subject to lease depreciation, just like a HDB flat.

    Nope. You’re owner of the land for 99 years. The Management Committee can do what you want with it, subjected to majority votes by residents.

    Truth 4: The entire 99 year leasehold condominium is a lessee of the land from the government, and each unit owner is just a part-lessee.

    It doesn’t turn into freehold. But remember a freehold condo will start to crumble after 50 years. Still need a developer to rebuilt. Only plus point is don’t need to pay for the development charges but still need to pay for a new home.

    Truth 5: A 99 year leasehold condominium unit owner may hold a strata title, but that just means you own both the unit and a share of the common areas. The entire condominium’s title deed is still a lease from the government. A strata title doesn’t magically turn your 99 year lease into a freehold.

    Wrong. All strata Titles property can start an enbloc by forming a sales committee. Topping up is for the developer to decide.

    Truth 6: “but condos can enbloc!” Not every 99 year leasehold condominium will be allowed to top up its lease during enbloc. No lease top up, no enbloc. True especially for condominiums with low redevelopment potential.

    So does freehold. Example: Mandarin Gardens in East Coast/Marine Parade

    Truth 7: More than half of 99 year leasehold enblocs fail. Success stories are not the norm. There are plenty of old leasehold condominiums which remain unsold.

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  • ah gong:

    @Ah Seng:
    March 29, 2019 at 1:56 am (Quote)

    “So,don’t buy 99 years condo,double the price of 99 years HDB.
    Might as well,search for FREEHOLD like older terrace houses.”

    hello ah seng,very clever.
    but no money,how to buy landed?

    so,i buy hdb.no choice leh.
    still a roof over my head.
    when got money or strike TOTO i go buy landed freehold.

    but you know Toto very hard.
    last time 5 out of 45.
    now 6 out of 49.
    anyway,big big prize always one big winner,strange.
    last time, when 5 out of 45,BIG PRIZE MONEY,AT LEAST2 OR MORE SHARE.

    dont know whether SINGAPORE POOLS got fake winner or not?
    who can check lah.

    not much choice,still got to try just in case.

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  • Hagen-Diaz:

    Cont’d…

    Wrong. HDB owners didn’t realize they also pay for their own estate upgrading through a sinking fund factored into their monthly conservancy charges like those of the private condos.

    Truth 9: The upgrading costs of a condominium are paid by the owners. The upgrading costs for public housing are mostly funded by the government (ie taxpayers aka both public and private house owners). In other words, HDB owners don’t have to pay for condo upgrading, but condo owners have to pay for HDB upgrading through taxes.

    Use the gym a lot and shower rooms. Hardly bathe at home. Water bills quite low and get know a number of “chicks” ;)

    Truth 10: You are unlikely to have time to use your condo facilities because you are probably spending your time working hard to pay off your mortgage, especially for you neither-high-nor-low SES half-past-six EC owners.

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  • Hagen-Diaz:

    Correction: Should be Windy Heights in Bedok not Mandarin Gardens which is a leasehold. Apology.

    Hagen-Diaz:
    So does freehold. Example: Mandarin Gardens in East Coast/Marine Parade

    Truth 7: More than half of 99 year leasehold enblocs fail. Success stories are not the norm. There are plenty of old leasehold condominiums which remain unsold.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Ah Seng

    WRONG THERE below. you are out of date. In property law, freehold is “fee simple” in perpetuity WITH AIR RIGHTS PROTECTION TO HEAVEN AND LAND RIGHTS TO THE MIDDLE OF THE EARTH UNDISTURBED AND CANNOT BE DISTURBED not even by the Crown Soveriegn.

    NOT ANYMORE IN LEE-JIAPORE, they changed the law in 2016 or 2017. Your so-called freehold is only land right up to just 40 metres from the surface. If they dug up a cavern to store ammunition or water pipe or sewage or MRT just 42m below your landed freehold bungalow or terrace and the structure (your proud landed” freehold property”) collapse, THAT IS YOUR LOSS. The law protects the crown from compensation obligations to you otherwise.

    Alone, you gonna fight the PAPpy for compensation for this misfortune when the amended legislation protects them? They want to maximise surface land for population explosion and economy use. But if 4 or 5 blocks of 99-yr leasehold condo is damaged by underground excavation, they join hands and sue for public entertainment – it is very political.

    Ah Seng: So,try to look out for freehold landed instead of buying 99 condo.
    You can pass down to your kids and grandkids unlike 99 years leasehold.

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  • Drastic changes!:

    1. To be fair, to level the field, work out a scheme to convert all non-99 years residential/condos to standard 99 years leases. And all commercials to appropriate leasehold, no more freehold. One stroke of the pen could do it, just like the land acquisition act thingy.
    2. Make it clear that after expiry of the leasehold, value is zero.
    3. If I am not wrong properties in Indonesia are limited to 30 plus years only but renewable on payment to extend to new lease.
    4. To partly solve current problems, convert the value of all HDB flats to rental value based on size and location and rental appreciation over the years. Work out a formula. First owners could only sell back to HDB and to be refunded the differential between total rental for period stayed and amount paid including conservancy charges plus minus as appropriate.
    5. Henceforth all current HDB flats to be given up only to HDB against a compensation formula.
    6. Henceforth all HDB flats on rentals only.
    7. Above will cut down the speculative gambling elements in our public housing scheme of things where the majority working class are residing, thus cutting off unnecessary anxieties to leave the people free to concentrate on life, family life. Hopefully the quality of life will be better and uplifted without the neverending nagging drag of living life centered or worrying about housing and it’s correlation to its up and down values and retirement funds etc..
    8. Above are ideas, taking a look at current situation and position, can imagine there will be alot of ifs and buts and fair and unfairness cries generated or the silliness or hard practicality of the above ideas, nevertheless will be interesting to hear comments and views on the matter.

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  • LIONS:

    Whatever the case is HDB shud be REPRICED TO BE MORE REACHABLE than what it has become after FAKE ASSET ENHANCEMENT scheme from SIN INC.’S GOH COCK THONG$?

    99 YRS IS TOO SHORT FOR SUCH PRICING ON PUBLIC HOUSING MEANT FOR POORER SGS?

    EXTEND LEASE ANOTHER 99 YEARS MOEE OR THE PAP WILL CAUSE HOMELESSNESS.

    Those who want to buy 99 years condo to enjoy PRESTIGE N FACILITIES,GO AHEAD IF YOU GOT MONEY TO SPEND.

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  • UniQ:

    I have been talking about this 99years private properties Monster since the announcement of the HDB saga. One cannot fail to detect something is very amiss with the sudden announcement of the HDB 99 years policies even knowing this will create a gigantuan effect to more than 90% Singaporeans ?

    If one decide to analyse deeper, I believe greed has over taken conscience as the public servant when they decide to sell private lands on 99 years leasehold. Time knows no mercy as it creeps, eventually they would have to spill the beans no matter how unpopular this may be, thru pure stupidity surface another Demon known as over priced public housing ?!?! Many Sinkies cannot swallow this fact as many life saving in their CPF a/c will be wiped clean during their retirement, and at the same time left with a very depreciated asset, this is going a be a HUGE limbo to many that the current regime is avoiding to discuss. This is a sad state indeed…but not by the doing of the people, but in the gahmen they trusted and voted all these years.

    Now, this new Monster known as private 99years properties. Bz of this monster, public housing owners were placed as cannon fodders inorder for the gahmen to be politically safe to address this. Look at this at a business point of view as all our papies will do (but not smartly). Taking back the land after the lease expire and then repackage/boundery/zone/etc them with new policies will reek higher profit OR allow the land to redevelope on a XX year extension ? (Remember we always have a 25years developing plan known as National development Board). Tell me which will be a more logical way to conduct business ? When have any Sinkies knows that if the Gahmen make more $$, they will let the public to make the $$ rather than they themselves make ? Let’s not kid oneself. Capital sales are not taxable, and depleting your savings is the goal, both objectives are achieve thru just this Monster alone. Truth does hurt.

    Thus, let’s be frank. HDB owners recently are forced to face the ugly truth that generations of Sinkies and the world at large are lead to believe…..The fact is less than 5% of Sinkies own a home (NOT more than 90% owns a home), while many others only pays for over priced rentals ?!?! an illogical rental policies that the tenants pays very high interests with an ‘s’(both sides – HDB/Banks and CPF), property taxes, upgrades, etc. Mind you, these are just tenants.

    My take is that owners of 99 years Private properties owners just abit ‘atas’ passengers on the same sinking sampan. One sits at Business Class while the rest on Economy. No matter how ‘atas’ seat is, the sampan is sinking, the result would be the same.

    A nation that allow their life to be played to such an extend is indeed a sad state.

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  • believe pap and die quickly:

    moral of the story, NEVER buy resale property, private or HDB rental.

    there is no value in any old property, whether private or HDB rental. any value is probably mostly a lie since if it is truly money making NOBODY will tell you.

    and one more thing. 70% sheep pays property tax on HDB rental unit which they don’t own, which rightly should be borne by HDB. same as paying GST on water conservation tax, a tax on a tax, when the GST on the water conservation tax rightly should be borne by PUB.

    WE have never agreed. But due to 70% sheep stupidity, we participate. ffff.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Get Real

    VERY EASY TO FIND THAT OUT – if you are the legal owner in the said property, the document of ownership in your possession MUST SAY EXACTLY AND PRECISELY YOUR NAME/IDENTITY AT WHICH LOCATION IS THE IDENTIFIED OWNER.

    If in that “document”you read says precisely your name at which location is the TENANT or lessee, then SOMEONE ELSE MUST BE THE LEGAL OWNER AND LEASOR SPECIFIED IN THAT “document” referred to in this paragraph.

    IT CANNOT BE TWO DIFFERENT OWNERS HOLDING THE SAME ‘TITLE DEED’ evidencing conflict legal interest in the same property.

    That means that the legal owner holds the TITLE DEED, and you holds a “transfer” document of advice of no legal interest just like a renter.

    TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, HDB BUYERS HOLDS A TRANSFER DOCUMENT SAYING THEY ARE TENANT AND HDB INCORPORATED IS THE OWNER CALLED LEASOR.

    Get Real: If a private condo is fully paid. You will get a title deed in thick quality paper, embossed with a logo, like a diploma certificate. For HDB, I don’t think so. Maybe, a piece of paper? Someone can throw some light?

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  • oxygen:

    @ Get Real,

    IF YOU ARE THE OWNER, you don’t need to lease the same dwelling or land from Ah Kong or any other zoological specie.

    You are the animus domini exercising all rights and power determination to do whatever you like – live in it, rent it, sell it, OR EVEN DESTROY IT BY OPTING FOR EN BLOC redevelopment opportunity with a property developer.

    IF AH KONG IS THE ANIMUS DOMINI, you are either a lessee or tenant with no legal ownership – established in the case law decision in 1851 on “who own what property” of what money discovered on a shop-floor premises.

    https://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/property/property-law-keyed-to-cribbet/finding/bridges-v-hawkesworth/

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  • John Lim:

    If you don’t know what lease hold means, well…..

    The only difference with a 99 year lease condo is the fact that it was never sold on misleading “unending” asset enhancement!

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  • John Grosse:

    @Ah Seng
    Why don’t you buy a freehold terrace house, he says!

    Are you saying that a FREEHOLD TERRACE HOUSE is as cheap as a HDB flat???

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  • PAP Root of All Evils:

    Which government you pick becomes very important for housing value.
    PAP government is one that is proven to steal your home at the end of 99 years. They are not interested if you have a place to live or not.
    They are not interested in renewing your lease when they can take for free while government of other countries renew the land lease to solve the housing problem. It is a social compact that citizens will be taken care of.

    PAP government is only about taking care of themselves, while you dafts die your own business.

    So this coming election is very important. kicking out PAP is very important.
    SDP already proposed housing policies that help sinkies keep their home.
    A new government is needed

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  • mike:

    This issue can be easily resolved:

    HDB reaches 60yrs be offered
    1. Top-up pakages of 40, 60, 80yrs at prevailing premiums
    2. Resell back to HDB at same prevailing premium rate
    3. Offered FH status at 120% of 99yrs premium if 70% vote for it

    What says you? ;) sure will win next election to offer this. At least win 50% of HDB occupiers :D

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  • The Reality:

    Thus, let’s be frank. HDB owners recently are forced to face the ugly truth that generations of Sinkies and the world at large are lead to believe…..The fact is less than 5% of Sinkies own a home (NOT more than 90% owns a home), while many others only pays for over priced rentals ?!?! an illogical rental policies that the tenants pays very high interests with an ‘s’(both sides – HDB/Banks and CPF), property taxes, upgrades, etc. Mind you, these are just tenants.

    My take is that owners of 99 years Private properties owners just abit ‘atas’ passengers on the same sinking sampan. One sits at Business Class while the rest on Economy. No matter how ‘atas’ seat is, the sampan is sinking, the result would be the same.

    Agree with most points but one.

    A person who has a private condo at 99 years of leasehold is able to downgrade and cash in for retirement by downgrading to a HDB flat later in life. He can choose a 3 or 4 room. Even the enbloc will be good cash.

    The problem is with an EC at 99 years leasehold in the heartlands with a bad location which may not be successfully enbloc. But! In the heartlands, there is a need for factories and industrial offices, private enterprises. So it is unlikely that an EC 99 years lease would face an issue. EC has ugly windows compared to the private 99 condos.That’s one way to salvage your CPF money for retirement. That’s why some people are trying to do just that. Don’t expect the condo dwellers to stay in the condo all their lives. They need money to retire.

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  • Hagen-Diaz:

    Actually, for all classes of properties ie: Landed, 99-lease/freehold, EC or HDB, its’ intrinsic value is location, location and still location, albeit En-bloc.

    There is no guarantee even for freehold if the Govt. wants to acquire it. Good example is Marymount Terrace, a freehold property.

    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/north-south-expressway-to-ease-cte-congestion

    The Reality:
    The problem is with an EC at 99 years leasehold in the heartlands with a bad location which may not be successfully enbloc. But! In the heartlands, there is a need for factories and industrial offices, private enterprises. So it is unlikely that an EC 99 years lease would face an issue.

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  • UniQ:

    Agree with most points but one.

    A person who has a private condo at 99 years of leasehold is able to downgrade and cash in for retirement by downgrading to a HDB flat later in life. He can choose a 3 or 4 room. Even the enbloc will be good cash.

    The problem is with an EC at 99 years leasehold in the heartlands with a bad location which may not be successfully enbloc. But! In the heartlands, there is a need for factories and industrial offices, private enterprises. So it is unlikely that an EC 99 years lease would face an issue. EC has ugly windows compared to the private 99 condos.That’s one way to salvage your CPF money for retirement. That’s why some people are trying to do just that. Don’t expect the condo dwellers to stay in the condo all their lives. They need money to retire.

    This is the transparencies currently. Policies may change.

    Objectives in Points: 99 Years leasehold Properties to HDB

    1. Depends on market sentiments during that time.
    Sell high Buy High

    2. Interest and maintenance cost paid during the residency
    will still have to be computated as expense on property

    3. Thus after deducting all these, my consideration. No so
    attractive = principle sum + interest + Maintenance cost +
    Reno (if any).

    4. Prediction = Most do not have much left in their CPF.
    Basically, I guess the difference between a HDB owner and
    the private property owner will not differentiate much due
    to the payment on high capital loan for 99 years leasehold
    while the HDB will have abit more left in their CPF accounts

    5. Cash repayment will not be discussed due to too much
    variations.

    6. To address enbloc suggestion, if that properties are lucky
    enough. Next, currently there are so many 99 years leasehold
    sold. By then, competition is inevitable. What do you think
    Enbloc prices will behave ? Desperate measures as attractive
    Value starts to creep away with time ? As I said, Time knows no
    mercy.

    7. Truth, use a excel spreadsheet. Base on current maximum
    deduction of both spouses for housing loan (equivalent size
    property), say 30 years.
    Add the interests to the capital loan + expenses to the
    properties annually. then see how much is expense. That will
    give a rough estimate what is left for each family after 30
    years based on properties expenses alone. then look at how
    much.

    8. Remember there will still be minimum sum ‘forced’ on each
    Singaporean CPF acct at 55.

    9. As of above, Retirement = Cash is King.
    My point not much of a difference. Both are on a sinking
    sampan. But ! the one with a higher expenses are much
    subjective to financial stress during unforeseen circumstances.
    Much…

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  • Uncle ah! Uncle !:

    There is a difference between “acquire” and “return”.

    A govt must acquire a freehold property bcos there is no end to this holding. A leasehold property must return to the government at the end of the lease.

    Even a 99 years leasehold but private property can delay the return by attempting en-bloc and may even make a tidy profit out of it.

    Can HDB “owners” do that ?

    Hagen-Diaz:
    Actually, for all classes of properties ie: Landed, 99-lease/freehold, EC or HDB, its’ intrinsic value is location, location and still location, albeit En-bloc.

    There is no guarantee even for freehold if the Govt. wants to acquire it. Good example is Marymount Terrace, a freehold property.

    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/north-south-expressway-to-ease-cte-congestion

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  • oxygen:

    @ Haigen-Diaz

    I SHARE SOME THOUGHTS OF @ The Reality thus expressed below. HDB buyers are, in the title deed ( transfer document) named as tenant/lesee and the title (named owner and leasor) is HDB Incorporated. So buyers are tenants/renters paying for pre-paid rent for 99-yr duration. In effect, HDB buyers, are in the property law language, bought a bundle of occupation use rights.

    THE ANIMUS DOMINI belongs to HDB – even forcing the tenant to pay for property tax when itself is in fact and law the owner of BUILDING STRUCTURE housing the flats rented out to tenants.

    There is a big problem with that – the “tenants” paid for the land as purchase consideration but NO LEGAL TITLE TO THAT.

    HOW CAN THAT SUSTAIN OF FACTS AND OF LAW?? In analogy, it is like you and me go to the car showroom and we bought a lamborghini – U paid $2 and I paid $499,998 but then you insisted on being registered as “owner” WITH ALL LAW RIGHTS OF OWNERSHIP i.e. animus domini and me as “RENTER”

    The Reality : The problem is with an EC at 99 years leasehold in the heartlands with a bad location which may not be successfully enbloc. But! In the heartlands, there is a need for factories and industrial offices, private enterprises. So it is unlikely that an EC 99 years lease would face an issue.

    In property law, the named owner is the title of legal ownership with all rights attached. But as co-buyer, AT MINIMUM, as a contributor of payment for any varying amount, I have a legal interest in the lamborghini or whatever property I paid for. It is called EQUITABLE INTERESTS – RECOGNISED IN COMMON LAW (judge-made law) and equity law principles.

    Other wise, I paid $499,998 for the lamborgghini and you sole owner? You are a “thief” or a “fraudster” in that hypothetical analogy.

    Since HDB dwellers paid for the land, they too must have an EQUITABLE INTEREST AND THE BUILDING STRUCTURE STANDING ON THE LAND/OWNER is in TRESPASS UNLESS IT PAYS THE OWNER/EQUITABLE INTEREST PARTY AN AGREED RENT IN COMPENSATION.

    IF THE BUYERS OF HDB OWNS AND RECOGNISED AS HAVING EQUITABLE INTEREST IN THE LAND – not merely a tenant bought into a bundle of occupation use rights in the flat which he/she does not own as legal owner – the 99-yr lease has great value.

    IT CAN BE EN BLOC TO COMMERCIAL PROPERTY DEVELOPERS just like private condos of 99-yr lease too subject to govt. approval. The future is too uncertain and fluid, there might be a lot of commercial property developers interested as office space, factory re-devopmentt potential.

    THE LAND MUST BE RETURNED TO HDB BUYERS WHO PAID FOR IT.

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  • blur:

    think some here rather confused
    .
    they say ah seng is wrong to claim freehold landed is better than 99 year leasehold condo.
    but they also say to ask G to return land to HDB owners?

    so,whats the difference?
    the G can also dig below 40 m,then what is your rights,4 or 5 blocks will be same as one landed terrace freehold still.

    think oxygen is confusing the issue.

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  • HarderTruths:

    Truth 11

    The condo rentiers are all f**ked – just like HDB rentiers.

    BY ORDER.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Blur

    INDEED YOU ARE A BLUR SOTONG or you are an IB trying so hard to sotong the Ah Seng.

    ASK YOURSELF THIS SIMPLE QUESTION – do you walk into a new car showroom pay for a Lamborghini and register the ownership of that car IN MY NAME? And if you want to use that after that, you must pay me rental – exactly like you are a tenant on the land you paid for in public housing?

    NOT SO CLEVER, RIGHT?

    Title is LEGAL OWNERSHIP in property law. If you pay for the land or lamborghini, you have what is called EQUITABLE INTEREST in the relevant “property”. It is a common law concept and an equity law recognition of rights.

    To learn more, just google “equitable interest”, common law (judge-made law or sometime called precedent/case law) and equity (fairness which in old days calls Chancery)

    If the govt returns the land to HDB dweller, YOU GOT THE SAME LEASEHOLD RIGHT TO 99-yr, that means you are on par with condo owners of same bundle of rights (property law concepts) and can en bloc too. Your HDB resale value is preserved until the end of the 99-yr lease SIMILAR TO CONDO.

    BOTH HDB AND PRIVATE CONDO HAVE SAME EN BLOC OPPORTUNITY AND RIGHTS.

    You are an Ah Seng who never ask this – how come buyers of condo and you pay for land but ONLY CONDO OWNERS HAVE LEASEHOLD INTEREST IN THE LAND FOR EN BLOC BUT YOU CAN’T?

    BUT REMEMBER THIS AND STICK IT INSIDE HARD AND PERMANENTLY IN YOUR SKULL – whether freehold, leasehold, the govt ALWAYS HAVE THE STATUTORY LAW ( Land Acquisition Act made in Parliament) to acquire your land!!!

    I DON’T COME HERE TO CONFUSE YOU OR ANYBODY. GOT A LOT OF FAR BETTER THINGS TO DO WITH MY RETIREMENT TIME.

    Get yourself a little education by doing informed research on the internet.

    blur: think some here rather confused
    .
    they say ah seng is wrong to claim freehold landed is better than 99 year leasehold condo.
    but they also say to ask G to return land to HDB owners?

    so,whats the difference?
    the G can also dig below 40 m,then what is your rights,4 or 5 blocks will be same as one landed terrace freehold still.

    think oxygen is confusing the issue.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Blur

    YOU CAN HAVE BOTH THE LEGAL AND EQUITABLE INTEREST existing in the same property at the same time.

    When the govt “sold” the land for private condo development, it is for only 99-yr lease ( govt. don’t sell land to developer on freehold basis which in property law called fee simple) – SO THE GOVT IS STILL THE LEGAL OWNER whilst the developer has an ‘EQUITABLE INTEREST” FOR ONLY 99 YR on the same leasehold land concurrently.

    At the end of the 99yr, govt is still legal owner AS ALWAYS BEEN, that is why condo owners MUST SURRENDER THE LEASEHOLD LAND THUS EXPIRED BACK TO THE GOVT. IT IS PROPERTY LAW!! I assumed no en bloc happens in that 99 yr lease.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Blur

    ASK YOURSELF THIS HONEST QUESTIONS -

    Would you read this classic illumination of property law concepts and understand substantially and at least attempt to understand the implication of this common law case precedents?

    http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/SydLawRw/1983/12.html

    I bet you won’t read beyond the first paragraph.

    I GUARANTEE THAT THE JUDGES IN THE CASE AND IN THE SUBSEQUENT APPEAL COURT REAFFIRMED THE ORIGINAL DECISION DID NOT SET OUT TO BLUR AND CONFUSE A “Ah Seng” like you.

    Welcome to the real world. I enjoy reading the “real stuff” not fiction nor Shakespearean dramas or fairytales.

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  • oxygen:

    @ Blur

    LET ME CUT THE CHASE FOR YOU in your confused state of mind with REAL WORLD HAPPENING OF EVENTS. And after that you can decide if I am truth telling of at least this one supposition.

    oxygen: @ Blur

    ASK YOURSELF THIS HONEST QUESTIONS -

    Would you read this classic illumination of property law concepts and understand substantially and at least attempt to understand the implication of this common law case precedents?

    http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/SydLawRw/1983/12.html

    I bet you won’t read beyond the first paragraph.

    TO AVOID DOUBT, JUST ASK MR. TAN KIN LIAN who spoke at the Hyflux protest meeting in HLP which I saw the U-tube recording. Mr. Tan asked investors twice how many among them read the 197-page bond issue document. How many raised hands? I don’t know.

    My guess, only my guess, not fact, is that it could be a small minority or EVEN NONE READ THE PROSPECTUS AND ITS WARNING DISCLAIMER. It is inside the prospectus.

    http://www.tremeritus.net/2019/04/05/hyflux-don%E2%80%99t-cry-for-the-investors/

    One TRE reader pointed out this fact.

    Now if you owns a gold-mining stock called Doray Minerals which has just gone through a merger, it issue a 436-page legal “prospectus”

    TELL US ALL HONESTLY, WOULD YOU AS INVESTOR IN THIS STOCK READ IN ENTIRETY THIS ALL-IMPORTANT 436 PAGES OF PRINT WITH DISCLOSURE WARNING INSIDE?

    With all due respect @ Blur, I rate the chances of you having done so is smaller than my chance getting elected the next Pope in the Vatican.

    SO WHAT IS MY MESSAGE TO YOU? DONT GET TRAP IN THE “ENVIRONMENTAL ILLBERALITY” (same as mountain tortoise) of prejudice bias and stubborn refusal to read and hear anything that is contrary to sunk imagined reality, read widely and discover anything you find SEXY (confusing).

    Most of the Hyflux investors would have known they are betting on very high risks of losing everything IF THEY READ THE PROSPECTUS.

    TOO LATE NOW, THEY PAY EXPENSIVELY FOR THIS ENVIRONMENTAL ILLIBERALITY – THEY ASSUME ANY CONTRARY VIEWS OF WARNING ARE “DECEPTIVE”.

    In real life, law is VERY SEXY – 10 lawyers gives you 10 legal judgement outcome predictions. The High Court decision in any fake law news prosecution could get reversed in the Appeal Court just like City Harvest case overturn on “technicality”

    GOOD LUCK!!

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  • oxygen:

    @ Blur

    Sorry for my accidental slip-up of not giving you the 436 pages merger document of Doray Minerals.

    https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20190218/pdf/442pvg5y679mhr.pdf

    IT IS TRUE IN ENTIRETY, NO LYING AND NOT SEEKING TO CONFUSE YOU OR THE ISSUE and it is 436 pages in entirety.

    People who won’t read hardly ever learns the real thing.

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  • John Lim:

    DON’T BE SILLY, ANON! Don’t you know the meaning
    of “99 year leasehold” ??? Shhhh!!!

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