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The government should set a fair wage based on market data

We cannot rely on the market to fix wages. The market wages depend largely on bargaining power. The worker is at a weaker position relative to the employer and has to accept a wage that is lower than a “fair rate”.

To overcome this weakness, the workers have to join a trade union and bargain for better wages and working conditions. In some cases, they have to go on strike. This is a destructive process.

What is a better way?

The government can use the data of the wage levels for different occupations fix the recommendation wage for each occupation and skill level. This is a “fair wage” and takes into account the supply and demand for the occupation. It overcomes the distortion caused by the relative bargaining power.

When I describe this system to a friend, he asked – are you advocating a communist system?

I replied – I am advocating common prosperity.

 

Tan Kin Lian

 

 

yyy
READER COMMENTS BELOW

33 Responses to “The government should set a fair wage based on market data”

  • P Against People:

    TKL see this gov too up! This gov won’t want to have common prosperity, and they are not capable of determining the right salaries. Wait they set a “generous” pay of $5 an hour, and we have to rely on instant noodle at home.

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  • Stupid Singaporeans Vote PAP:

    TKL is barking up the wrong tree, they are busy counting their money & walking them to the bank laughing & dancing in the rain.

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  • only stupid people vote pap:

    P Against People:
    TKL see this gov too up! This gov won’t want to have common prosperity, and they are not capable of determining the right salaries. Wait they set a “generous” pay of $5 an hour, and we have to rely on instant noodle at home.

    instant noodles no longer cheap.

    in Feb 2022, it was S$2.30 for a packet of 5, Nissin.

    in May 2022, it was S$2.40 for the same packet of 5, Nissin.

    in Oct 2022, it was S$2.80 for the same packet of 5, Nissin.

    seller was too embarrassed the last time. she said price has increased to S$2.80 and if I still wanted?

    what to do? S$2.30 or S$2.40 or S$2.80, still need to eat right?

    this pap government says it is managing via foreign exchange but for ffff sake I suggest they go to the ground and check instant noodle prices to see how the pap folks are not managing inflation at all but rather throwing away sinkie monies.

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  • Hold Ho Ching accountable:

    Financial Times: Sam Bankman-Fried issues mea culpa in letter to former FTX employees

    “Sam Bankman-Fried has told former FTX employees that excessive borrowing by his own trading firm Alameda Research was responsible for FTX’s demise’”

    FTX failed because of mismanagement or even fraud. If Temasek did proper “due diligence” before it invested $400m in the company it would have detected this weakness.

    Ho Ching is responsible and should be accountable for this loss because she was Temasek CEO when the investment was made.

    DPM and Finance Minister Lawrence Wong should immediately remove Ho Ching as Temasek Chairman and ask Parliament to convene a Commission of Inquiry to investigate this fiasco and to ensure Temasek has competent management and adequate controls.

    DPM Lawrence Wong should also instruct Temasek to sack its Chief Technology Officer.

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  • Chew Hong Tat talking cock:

    GST hike shows PAP’s care for present, future generations; WP should provide alternatives ‘workable’ in even 50 years: Chee Hong Tat

    PAP claims GST hike is necessary without proving PROOF. This is necessary because Singapore already has massive reserves (estimated at over a TRILLION $) and perennial Budget surpluses. There are also billions kept in self-funding stat boards and they make billions annually.

    The Goverment is NOT open and transparent. Singaporeans do not know the WHOLE truth. There is no real accountability.

    THE SOLUTION IS REGIME CHANGE. THROW OUT THETHE PAP.

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  • Chew Hong Tat talking cock:

    WP wants to fund spending while avoiding moves like GST by taking more from reserves: Chee Hong Tat

    Not so fast. Before criticizing WP Chew Hong Tat should state the size of the reserves.

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  • John Doe:

    Talking cock big time, this dude again.

    What F market is there existing in SG to talk about. Please la, get out of my F face.

    The PAP Administration seduced govt service employees as tho it’s PAP’s by gifting huge wage increases multiple months of bonuses claiming they do important work, as tho the rest of this resilient society’s labour are not. This is BRIBERY isn’t it.

    What true and unadulterated market there is worthy to speak of. Do a research how big has the PAP Administration BOUGHT the labour market’s loyalty WHEN PRODUCTIVITY is so so so bloody crucially DEAD that this PAP has NO ANSWER to REVIVE for years.

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  • idontbelieveinccpbs:

    You think CCP is really common prosperity? The CCP team all their money parked outside China, with their families and kins. SG sama la… these dictators did not own shares in GLCs etc? And Mdm pay is rumoured to be $100M.

    The only way is to VTO, nothing else to stop greed and autocracy.

    Tech: Granted what you say may be true, but then it can be widely seen that most of the people in China, their lives are getting better. Better than Sinkieland, would you agree?

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  • xoxo:

    To be able to effect *fairness*,be it worker’s wage,etc,THE G MUST FIRST BE FAIR itself.
    Is the G fair?
    I am not too sure,sincerely.
    Look at the way the G distributed grants with sgs’ $100 Billion from reserves recently.
    Needy n MOST DESERVING sgs received a disproportionate sum of $600 even when well-heeled sgs n OUTSIDERS were granted much more than the $23.5K per capita?
    Why cant the G mandate a PAY-CUT to tide over Covid instead?
    The rich have enough savings,i am sure.
    To exact fairnese,one must be fair himself.

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  • Singaporeans R Free Riders:

    When I describe this system to a friend, he asked – are you advocating a communist system?

    I replied – I am advocating common prosperity.
    ========================================================================
    Dear TKL,
    Common prosperity?
    Assuming our great PAP mandate minimum wage $10 per hour.

    You work 5 hours and earns SGD50.

    Your friend work 1 hour and earn SGD10.

    Are you going to share half of your SGD50 with your friend ?

    If communist system is so good, please move to China.

    Please quick quick migrate there..give us a date and time.

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  • Albert Lim:

    In the very 1st place, civil service sectors are chosen
    to serves the general public, hence, it should logically be lower than private sectors BUT appears to be struggling to compete with Iron Rice Bowls employers in sinkapoor.

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  • SINGAROAR:

    TKL, LHL is peddling cheap labour to attract foreign investors and you are talking about fair wages.Why do you think,the third world is every where in Singapore?

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  • daft 60% poor:

    if u ask the 60% old daft they will say this is communist system when they have not even neend to university to study social science or politics. the daft 60%…their typical pattern. They dont even know that in communist system money has no real value and most often used as a supplemntary tool rather than a main tool in the system. In north korea the the typical salary of a a elite and govt servants or worker in a state owned factory or farm is 1 USD monthly.

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  • Shutup. Leave it to Milo Ma'am:

    “How can one, who eats the flesh of others to swell his own flesh, show compassion?”

    - Thiruvalluvar the Sage

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  • xoxo:

    @instant noodles no longer cheap.

    This is so telling of PROFITEERING.
    A simple calculation shows the 60 cts increase for a pack of 5 to be something close to 19 pct.
    Whats the real component for such an incremental in *INFLATION* rate?

    GREED N PROFITEERING.
    WE REQUEST AUDITOR GENERAL or some govt body to look into this.
    WHAT EXACTLY WAS THE PROFIT(Mark-up) per packet in February of 2022 when price was $2.20 per packet and what was the *mark-up* per packet in October.
    We provLsion for actual increments in *COST OF SUPPLY*.
    NTUC FAIR-price is fair in pricing???
    Who is the minister/MPs in charge?
    Its so damn *bloody* ea$y put blame onSUPPLY CHAIN when ,in fact,THE REA$ON IS PLAING GREED N PTOFITEERING?

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  • xoxo:

    And,we cannot blame FX impact between yen and sgd.
    In May 2022,1 yen = 0.0108,in Oct 2022 ,1 yen=0.0095 approx.
    So,in terms of FX ,sgd was stronger even.
    So,i hazard Greed was the culprit.

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  • Lawrence Wong talking cock:

    Straits Times: President Halimah briefed on rates of return on S’pore’s investment assets

    DPM and Finance Minister Lawrence Wong briefing the President on rates of return on Singapore investment assets is NOT enough. The following should be done.

    (1) For Temasek the returns must be broken down between does and foreign investments. The former are the GLCs while the latter are the invesyment made by Temasek overseas.

    GLCs have their own board of directors and Temasek do not micromanage these companies. Temasek Board and management is responsible and accountable for the investments made overseas.

    Presenting, Temasek results by industry sectors is misleading because the losses overseas are easily covered up by the results of the GLCs.

    (2) Temasek just lost $400m in FTX. This needs to be explained. Temasek claims it did due diligence for 8 months before investing. This is irrelevant. The fact that FTX failed due to mismanagement and/or fraud proves Temasek’s due diligence process is flawed. The Temasek CEO (at that time was Ho Ching) should be held responsible and accountable.

    Besides the detailed financial results there must be a proper assessment of the effectivesness of the Temasek Board and Management. This is actually more important for Temasek’s investment overseas because it determines the financial results.

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  • xoxo:

    And,at most retailers and even j
    Hawkers,stalls anyhow CHARGE FOR PLASTIC BAGS or CONTAINERS.
    Used to be free.
    Now for simple waxed paper container,some even charge up to 40 cts.
    Not big containers like for western food take-aways but simple ah boling stall even?

    Green or just Greed?

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  • Sin Incorp:

    Have you not heard? The wages of Sin is death? The strength or power of Sin is the law, and the sting of Sin is death.
    You are born into a commercial contractual relationship with your government dictated by wages for your survival. Since you are validated by wages…rich, poor or bonded are slaves to Sin’s law.
    And you can’t break from the law because you are born into Sin or is sold under Sin.

    Hence we say money talks through your leadership.

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  • Singaporeans R Free Riders:

    Sin Incorp:
    Have you not heard? The wages of Sin is death? The strength or power of Sin is the law, and the sting of Sin is death.
    You are born into a commercial contractual relationship with your government dictated by wages for your survival. Since you are validated by wages…rich, poor or bonded are slaves to Sin’s law.
    And you can’t break from the law because you are born into Sin or is sold under Sin.

    Hence we say money talks through your leadership.

    Money talks ? Are you describing your Americunt leadership ?

    Go watch international news for a balance view.

    Facts#1
    Americunt exploit EU by selling LNG gas at 4 time the price…
    https://saharareporters.com/2022/10/11/ukraine-war-us-taking-advantage-energy-crisis-exploit-eu-selling-gas-four-times-price

    b) instigating others to go to war and died so that they Americunt$ profit from arms sales killing millions of people?
    Facts#2:
    We paid only 66 billion for Ukrainians to die for US interests in the war with Russia. US’ $66 billion investment in Ukraine is well worth it.
    https://bit.ly/3DlJeEb

    US President Coolidge said : After all, the chief business of the American people is business.(read profit)

    You bleed, my profit, my bonuses. Your death is highly profitable.

    In Dollar$ We Tru$t.
    Prai$e the Dollar$.
    Glory be with the Dollar$

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  • Singaporeans R Free Riders:

    Shutup. Leave it to Milo Ma'am:
    “How can one, who eats the flesh of others to swell his own flesh, show compassion?”

    - Thiruvalluvar the Sage

    What stupid logic is this ?

    So my home cat should not eat fish ? or lion should not eat meat ?

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  • idontbelieveinccpbs:

    Tech: Granted what you say may be true, but then it can be widely seen that most of the people in China, their lives are getting better. Better than Sinkieland, would you agree?

    Reply: I really get my hats off to you, you are so freaking pro…..like TKL. China living was getting better ever since Deng decided to open up and peak during Jiang and Hu time. Currently under Xi’s term with Covid O, it is getting worst. Their welfare is better than Singapore for sure, but economy sinking fast and life is getting is worst under Xi. Recently, a lot of Rich migrants moved out from China and HK to Singapore. Internally, the PRC citizens are now aware of why they are running.

    Several of my friends suffered so much during the lock downs that they are now very angry. I gave you one case, she was locked down in Shenzhen, after the lock down, she flew into Shanghai for business, she was locked down for 2 months! And in that 2 months she lost her job and she remained jobless for next 2 years!!! She said she cannot complain on wechat or she will blacklisted but honestly, when she speaks to me, I could feel her extreme helpless and anger. She kept repeating the whole thing throughout the conversation telling me she is mentally affected after 2 years of Covid 0, locking down few times and out of job.

    I know you are hiding with your PRC wife in rural area but spare a thought for many people in the cities who are suffering with multiple lockdowns and lost their living or businesses. This is your beloved Emperor Winnie Xi’s Covid 0?

    You really cannot be convinced, you are die hard like PAPPY fans.

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  • Singaporeans R Free Riders:

    Shutup. Leave it to Milo Ma'am:
    “How can one, who eats the flesh of others to swell his own flesh, show compassion?”

    - Thiruvalluvar the Sage

    btw, since you agreed with the Sage. Have you donate to TRE or Ten to prevent them from eating up ?

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  • @idontbelieveinccpbs

    Firstly, I did not mention Xi, did I? I was referring to China as a whole country and it is improving, be it under Deng, Hu or even Xi.

    Secondly, As for the lockdowns, I do not deny that there will be suffering, both humanly and economically, no one likes to be in a lockdown, it is indeed very frustrating, but it is necessary to protect others.

    And since you like to poke holes in the zero-C19 policies and considering I am on lockdown currently, I would take a few minutes to address that with simple math.

    Let’s assume for the sake of discussion that the mortality rate of the C19 is 10% (regardless of variant).

    Sinkieland has 5,000,000 million residents, so 500,000 would up the lorry.
    China has 1500,000,000 residents, so 150,000,000 would up the lorry.

    Then we take the social impact. In Sinkieland, die loved ones, go downstairs dong dong chiang a few days, case close, then lan lan life goes on because cannot make noise cannot complain, cannot sue, got POFMA, etc etc to protect the agencies and individuals.

    In China, one loved one die, whole village can cry father cry mother if it is due to official neglect or incompetence. I have seen an entire village of over 50 surrounding a hospital in ShenZhen because the doctor delivering was late and had supposedly caused a still birth. The mayor of ShenZhen had to pacify the family and promised an investigation before the villagers left. In the end, the hospital apologised and offered compensation, the doctor was sacked.

    On the same note, lets say in Sinkieland, all the residents in RedHill estate up the lorry (touch wood), no issue, just dong dong chiang a few more times can liao, case closed.

    In China, if one whole village up the lorry, the village head and all his staff (including county officials) can say almost immediately be suspended/sacked (investigate later). Then an independent investigation (by other province/city agency) will be conducted and the officials can be sued or charged (normally when negligence causes death).

    Then we come back to the medical facilities impact.

    Lets say of the 10% kenna, all no die but need to be hospitalised, then how?

    Sinkieland now not even 10% need hospitalisation already buay tahan liao, if really 10% (500,000) need hospital beds, then how? Apply that to China, 10% is 150,000,000 (150 MILLION) needs hospital beds, you say lor.

    Lastly, unlike Sinkieland which MTF die die claims vaccination 100% works, China’s health authorities acknowledged that the vaccines (regardless of type) do not 100% prevent infection nor spread. Therefore frail oldies and goodies who are infected will either be seriously injured or die from a C19 infection. Most oldies and goodies in China have underlying medical conditions (me included), so MILLIONS will either be seriously injured or die.

    So do the math, if MILLIONS in China were to be hospitalised or die in a short span of time (if the virus were to be allowed free reign), then what would China be like?

    The bottomline is simple. Sinkieland maybe can afford 500,000 up the lorry with its no hue, no blame and STFU policies, but China cannot afford to have 150,000,000 of its residents up the lorry because their people-centric policies make every official and agency accountable to those that they are supposed to be taking care of.

    Lastly, allow me to quote a senior CPC official during the initial Wuhan outbreak.

    一张病床, 代表的不是一个病人
    代表的是一个家庭, 一个社会的稳定

    So, my question to you: 如果1500万个人死了, 那么社会还会稳定吗?

    P/S: During the most recent lockdown in ShangHai, about 100 died of various reasons (some neglect), do you have any idea how many officials in charge of the lockdown were sacked? Go ask the CNA correspondent who just ‘escaped’ from Shanghai and returned to Sinkieland. She and her partner were locked in their apartment for 2+ months , they should know.

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  • SINGAROAR:

    @Shut up.Leave it to Milo Ma’am
    Well said.Right on target.

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  • xoxo:

    @TRE Tech

    So,what i gather is you are saying is that l China’s Zero Covid *lockdowns* are necessary to prevent any unforseen and untoward SPREAD N POSSIBLE HIGHER FATALITIES and severe cases that may require hospitalisation,etc.

    I think it makes good sense as the magnitude of possible severe infections can be very disruptive to China’s healthcare system.

    Prevention is indeed better than cure.

    Strange, people who cowpeh about OYK’s lax attitude towards handling Covid by reckless and impulsive re-opening are also critical of China’s less aggressive approach?

    BTW,China’s RICH are leaving not particularly due to the COVID *0* LOCKDOWNS alone but to park their ill-gotten monies and their own hot a$$es in safer harbour$ like $in City where the Rich are PRIVILEGED N PROTECTED instead of getting *caught* when COMMON PROSPERITY programs begin?

    Whatever,i think China will get out of Covid safer and better than most gung-ho govt$ who put $ before the People? China will most certainly continue to prosper n progress under XJP.

    LET TIME BE THE JUDGE.

    Tech: Yes, that’s exactly what I am saying (and also the official stance), i.e. to prevent society from breaking down as my simple math has shown. As for the rich leaving, with or without the lockdowns, they would also leave because of China’s latest stance dealing with the “rouge rich”. That new stance has got nothing to do with the C19 situation in China.

    BTW, the C19 variant that is prevalent in China is Omicron, unlike the XBB in Sinkieland, it is very highly contagious.

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  • Cure worse than the disease?:

    The world has move on except China on Covid.
    Which is better? only time will tell.
    Meanwhile China will suffer economic pain….and more anger.

    Tech: Errr… just curious hor, US has millions dead and millions and millions more infected, same for Sinkieland’s infected figures of 2 million while China has not even 20% of infected compared to Sinkieland and US. Is that your yardstick for “moving on”?

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  • Gajaraja:

    Sinkiland is not an isolated place, it is connected to the wider world in many ways. Thus talking about the Covid situation in an important part of the world is just a matter of discussion.

    So far, total Covid infection in Sinkiland is @ 2.15 million cases, total death toll related to the virus is just 1K+ cases. Death rate is far below one percentage point.

    The MTF has done a good job for Sinkiland in any sense, Sinkiland is now a bustling place just like the pre Covid time.

    News reports revealed that mainland China registered more than 30 thousands Covid infections yesterday. The view about zero policy has now said to be polarised between the young and the old. The young wants it to be changed, the old said life is precious and support the existing policy wholeheartedly.

    With many undesirable incidents relating to the zero policy reported across the country lately, the ruling elites might be in a difficult dilemma as to what to do next.

    Countries in Southern Asia have all opened up and Covid is no longer being viewed as a detrimental threat. If the current Covid situation in mainland China doesn’t improve quickly, the toll for the country will be serious. Sinkiland being so small but is so connected with them economically, the impact on Sinkiland would be very strong if they do not do well!

    Pray that Covid will be over soon and all will be better after the pandemic!

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  • idontbelieveinccpbs:

    @TR Tech

    These friends are very pro CCP but now they dont have means to pay for living and jobless. This is real, they said they rather die than to be poor!

    You are just a retired man with PRC wife in country side living on savings, CPF and PRC pension of your family. But the rest of the PRC citizens need to work and eat. If China is so freaking good, why the rich and powerful need to run to Singapore?

    You are full of BS honestly. You keep harping on potential deaths… what else?
    The rest of the whole has opened up, even Singapore… millions of people without mask singing and dancing in Qatar, what happened?

    Your skull is very thick, you speak with no logic.

    Tech: I say liao, I understand the dire consequences of the Zero-C19 policies and it is indeed frustrating and damaging in every sense of the word. BUT we must consider the larger picture, that millions of oldies and goodies and those with underlying conditions could be seriously injured and die as a result, per the simple math I had posted, what more can I say? BTW, the deaths are real, not “potential” and the recent lockdown of ShangHai proves that people do die from C19.

    Sinkies may be able to brush off any deaths as “they will die sooner or later wat” and then pretend nothing has happened, but not the Chinese because the family bond is very very close. Death is a big thingy in China, understand?

    Your logic of expecting 150 million residents to die so that 1.5b can live freely is more than irresponsible, it is insane and very selfish which I believe only sinkies could come up with such crap.

    And which idiot told you that I have CPF and pension in China, you think so and it must be so? lol

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  • SINGAROAR:

    @Gajaraja
    The death nos. in Singapore is more than 2000.Do you know for sure that 2.5m who were infected will not suffer from the effects of having got the COVID? China,may have its own reasons for its COVID policy.There must be a compelling reason that is not being revealed for China’s COVID policy. I would not be so quick to criticize China,as it may be acting in the best long term interest of its citizens.We may turn out to be the fools as fools seldom differ.

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  • unvax:

    @Gajaraja
    1. “So far, total Covid infection in Sinkiland is @ 2.15 million cases, total death toll related to the virus is just 1K+ cases. Death rate is far below one percentage point.”
    Since total Covid infection is so high (denominator), death rate is “low”. Total population should be used as the denominator. Compare the death rate with that of China.
    China (Mainland) 5,232/1.426 billion=0.4/100k
    Singapore 1,701/5.64 million=30/100k (Do you still think it’s low?)

    2. “The MTF has done a good job for Sinkiland in any sense, Sinkiland is now a bustling place just like the pre Covid time.”
    Dare MTF say that? If it has done a good job, total Covid infection in Sinkiland will not be @ 2.15 (now 2.16) million cases. Total death toll related to the virus will not be “just” 1K+ cases (1,701, you think too few? and pretend nothing happened?). MOH releases ART positive fully vaccinated and children on the 7th day and said they are “highly unlikely” to be infectious by this time. Actually, they are infectious because ART tests can detect patients with high viral loads. They implement VDS, but over the past 7 days, all the Active Cases in ICU and Deaths were Fully Vaccinated with Booster.

    Too many things will affect death rate, like the climate (No change of seasons, only summer in Singapore).

    3. “News reports revealed that mainland China registered more than 30 thousands Covid infections yesterday. The view about zero policy has now said to be polarised between the young and the old. The young wants it to be changed, the old said life is precious and support the existing policy wholeheartedly.”
    “中国国家卫生健康委员会的数据显示,当地昨天(24日)新增3万2943起病例,比前天(23日)多1287起,当中九成没有症状。” If Singapore tests like China does, total Covid infection in Singapore will be much much higher than 2.15 (now 2.16) million cases. Every young has old parents and grandparents and he (she) will become old. They are too young to think like that.

    4. “With many undesirable incidents relating to the zero policy reported across the country lately, the ruling elites might be in a difficult dilemma as to what to do next.
    Countries in Southern Asia have all opened up and Covid is no longer being viewed as a detrimental threat. If the current Covid situation in mainland China doesn’t improve quickly, the toll for the country will be serious. Sinkiland being so small but is so connected with them economically, the impact on Sinkiland would be very strong if they do not do well!”
    Be clear about the situation in Singapore, no need to be worried for China. Don’t expect China will follow the path of Singapore and sacrifice China’s people for Singapore’s economy!

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  • xoxo:

    It is daft to take risks recklessly just so to achieve SHORT-TERM GAIN$.
    Letting in all sorts of people from HIGH RISKS COUNTRIES will UNWITTINGLY give rise to more sgs getting infected with one strain or another.
    Covid is not over yet but silly gahmen think the health risk is nothing compared to making money.
    NATIONAL HEALTH IS A NATION’S LONG-TERM WEALTH,particularly so for a small nation like ours.

    WHAT IS LONG COVID?
    Symotoms of Covid that resurface up now and then?
    Covid is linked closely to pneumonia.
    It is silly to think that pneumonia will
    just go away.
    Worse still is RE-INFECTION that will weaken the patient further.
    And,DUMPING INFECTED ALIENS here at HIGH SPEED is just going to cause even more sgs to be infected,knowingly or unknowningly.
    Going forward,the impact from such infections will be COSTLY TO THE NATION.
    It is a question of time.
    We have been put at risks unnecessarily.
    The eagerne$$ to seek Short-term gains will eventually lead to Long-term negative effects on our Nation’s Health.

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  • Gajaraja:

    There are people who are very inward looking, thinking that Sinkiland is the world, the world is Sinkiland.

    Therefore, Sinkie needs not mind other’s business, what is ours is ours, what belongs to other is none of sinkie’s business!

    Remember there was a saying which goes something like this: economically, if the American sneezes, sinkie will suffer a bad flu.

    Things take place on the other side of the globe could impact Sinkiland heavily. To some of our fellow sinkie: please don’t sleep too soundly!

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